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> 2.8.2.12 DO NOT BE RACIST I long for the day that concern trolling and virtue signalling are not included in otherwise helpful resources like this one.

ncallaway 7y ago
I'll do my very best to ensure that you never see that day!
Der_Einzige 7y ago
This is not concern trolling or virtue signalling. What you're doing is closer to both of those words than what the author did. Especially if you read the two sentences that the author writes under that section. It's pretty damn tame. (and that's why I'm pretty sure you didn't based on your response)
- isoskeles 7y ago
  I did read them and agree that they're tame. I just disagree with the constant narrative that the US is some disgustingly racist country, it's something that comes up more than racism.
  - Der_Einzige 7y ago
    At no point was the author ever claiming that the US is a disgusting or racist country. At best, the author noted a minor uptick in racist acts as a result of corona, which is objectively true. You are projecting your concern about a narrative that the author is not contributing to.
  - wenc 7y ago
    I find virtue-signaling tiresome myself, but in this case I don't think the author was virtue-signalling or being an SJW. There are some real concerns around xenophobic responses around the world and I think the author wrote those words sincerely. Plus I don't think she was referring to the U.S. specifically. When people are fearful, their higher executive functions become impaired, and it is exactly these executive functions that are needed to weigh the facts and to avoid impulse blaming, which in this context manifests in xenophobic behaviors. All of us need occasional reminders to help us realize that we can rise above our baser survival instincts. We all impulse-blame -- that's just human nature, I do it too. But we can do better than that.
chickenpotpie 7y ago
They could have gone more in depth, but I think it's important we keep it in our minds. A lot of Asian-American businesses are suffering because of racism around the Coronavirus.
- isoskeles 7y ago
  > A lot of Asian-American businesses are suffering because of racism around the Coronavirus. I've heard this fact before and immediately discarded it as most likely based only on anecdotal evidence. I'd need to see unbiased data proving it as true. Specifically that Asian-American businesses are suffering more than other, similar businesses in the same geographic locations.
  - wenc 7y ago
    > immediately discarded it as most likely based only on anecdotal evidence. Immediately? Without even thinking it through or investigating it? As a Chicagoan, I can cite this [1]. And I have seen it for myself since I live close to the area. Traffic has been back up, but nowhere close to what it was. [1] https://chicago.eater.com/2020/2/19/21142285/chinatown-restaurant-crawl-chicago-country-club-fundraiser-intel https://chicago.eater.com/2020/2/19/21142285/chinatown-resta...
    - isoskeles 7y ago
      This is called anecdotal evidence. And yes, immediately. Although thank you for linking a source, even if it's anecdotal, and even if it directly acknowledges that traffic might be down also because of a double homicide in the area. And even if it doesn't address what traffic is like at restaurants outside of Chinatown in nearby areas. Etc.
      - wenc 7y ago
        True, it is not more than anecdotal because no one is really performing causal inference studies on this so that people can draw rigorous conclusions. It is however quite obvious to anyone who is actually physically present there and in other parts of Chicago, and quite obvious to the business owners who have to deal with the reality of a significant drop in business.
throwaway237654 7y ago
+1. The absence of racism will not improve the outcome of this virus in any way whatsoever. This is just the author trying to masquerade her opinion as science. "Do not be careless" and "do not binge the news" are equally useless pieces of advice.
- jessaustin 7y ago
  "do not binge the news" is excellent advice. The only possible improvement would be to substitute "watch" for "binge".
  - SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
    > The only possible improvement would be to substitute "watch" for "binge". Unless you're taking a stand strictly against 24 hours cable news, you still need to be informed, and that'll involve viewing some form of news.
- wenc 7y ago
  > The absence of racism will not improve the outcome of this virus in any way whatsoever. Racism/xenophobia is an undesired 2nd-order effect. When people are in survival mode they only care about 1st-order effects, and every man/woman for him/herself. It's understandable, yet this also causes damage to society in ways that cannot be foreseen. It entrenches selfishness and normalizes lack of empathy for others. When things return to normalcy, there will be a cost.
rectang 7y ago
I have mixed feelings about embedding this point in the list, because even though I think it serves a worthy purpose it may impede the primary objective of slowing the spread of COVID-19 by making this resource less palatable to some. We are already seeing that people assess the severity of COVID-19's spread through a partisan lens. I don't want this. I want the best possible response no matter what, because I am not willing to martyr my aging parents to make a political point.
- notahacker 7y ago
  At some point, you've got to decide whether the infrequent but actually-documented problem of people who are apparently of East Asian origin being singled out and in some cases even assaulted is more important to address than the possibility some people are so triggered by the idea of not being racist that they would avoid taking any pandemic prevention advice from somebody who also suggested not being racist.
  - UnFleshedOne 7y ago
    I don't think anybody who considers physically assaulting a member of a group they themselves consider potentially contagious can be reasoned with at all. This is prime Darwin award material...

ncallaway 7y ago

I'll do my very best to ensure that you never see that day!

Der_Einzige 7y ago

This is not concern trolling or virtue signalling. What you're doing is closer to both of those words than what the author did. Especially if you read the two sentences that the author writes under that section. It's pretty damn tame. (and that's why I'm pretty sure you didn't based on your response)

isoskeles 7y ago
I did read them and agree that they're tame. I just disagree with the constant narrative that the US is some disgustingly racist country, it's something that comes up more than racism.
- Der_Einzige 7y ago
  At no point was the author ever claiming that the US is a disgusting or racist country. At best, the author noted a minor uptick in racist acts as a result of corona, which is objectively true. You are projecting your concern about a narrative that the author is not contributing to.
- wenc 7y ago
  I find virtue-signaling tiresome myself, but in this case I don't think the author was virtue-signalling or being an SJW. There are some real concerns around xenophobic responses around the world and I think the author wrote those words sincerely. Plus I don't think she was referring to the U.S. specifically. When people are fearful, their higher executive functions become impaired, and it is exactly these executive functions that are needed to weigh the facts and to avoid impulse blaming, which in this context manifests in xenophobic behaviors. All of us need occasional reminders to help us realize that we can rise above our baser survival instincts. We all impulse-blame -- that's just human nature, I do it too. But we can do better than that.

chickenpotpie 7y ago

They could have gone more in depth, but I think it's important we keep it in our minds. A lot of Asian-American businesses are suffering because of racism around the Coronavirus.

isoskeles 7y ago
> A lot of Asian-American businesses are suffering because of racism around the Coronavirus. I've heard this fact before and immediately discarded it as most likely based only on anecdotal evidence. I'd need to see unbiased data proving it as true. Specifically that Asian-American businesses are suffering more than other, similar businesses in the same geographic locations.
- wenc 7y ago
  > immediately discarded it as most likely based only on anecdotal evidence. Immediately? Without even thinking it through or investigating it? As a Chicagoan, I can cite this [1]. And I have seen it for myself since I live close to the area. Traffic has been back up, but nowhere close to what it was. [1] https://chicago.eater.com/2020/2/19/21142285/chinatown-restaurant-crawl-chicago-country-club-fundraiser-intel https://chicago.eater.com/2020/2/19/21142285/chinatown-resta...
  - isoskeles 7y ago
    This is called anecdotal evidence. And yes, immediately. Although thank you for linking a source, even if it's anecdotal, and even if it directly acknowledges that traffic might be down also because of a double homicide in the area. And even if it doesn't address what traffic is like at restaurants outside of Chinatown in nearby areas. Etc.
    - wenc 7y ago
      True, it is not more than anecdotal because no one is really performing causal inference studies on this so that people can draw rigorous conclusions. It is however quite obvious to anyone who is actually physically present there and in other parts of Chicago, and quite obvious to the business owners who have to deal with the reality of a significant drop in business.

throwaway237654 7y ago

+1. The absence of racism will not improve the outcome of this virus in any way whatsoever. This is just the author trying to masquerade her opinion as science. "Do not be careless" and "do not binge the news" are equally useless pieces of advice.

jessaustin 7y ago
"do not binge the news" is excellent advice. The only possible improvement would be to substitute "watch" for "binge".
- SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
  > The only possible improvement would be to substitute "watch" for "binge". Unless you're taking a stand strictly against 24 hours cable news, you still need to be informed, and that'll involve viewing some form of news.
wenc 7y ago
> The absence of racism will not improve the outcome of this virus in any way whatsoever. Racism/xenophobia is an undesired 2nd-order effect. When people are in survival mode they only care about 1st-order effects, and every man/woman for him/herself. It's understandable, yet this also causes damage to society in ways that cannot be foreseen. It entrenches selfishness and normalizes lack of empathy for others. When things return to normalcy, there will be a cost.

rectang 7y ago

I have mixed feelings about embedding this point in the list, because even though I think it serves a worthy purpose it may impede the primary objective of slowing the spread of COVID-19 by making this resource less palatable to some. We are already seeing that people assess the severity of COVID-19's spread through a partisan lens. I don't want this. I want the best possible response no matter what, because I am not willing to martyr my aging parents to make a political point.

notahacker 7y ago
At some point, you've got to decide whether the infrequent but actually-documented problem of people who are apparently of East Asian origin being singled out and in some cases even assaulted is more important to address than the possibility some people are so triggered by the idea of not being racist that they would avoid taking any pandemic prevention advice from somebody who also suggested not being racist.
- UnFleshedOne 7y ago
  I don't think anybody who considers physically assaulting a member of a group they themselves consider potentially contagious can be reasoned with at all. This is prime Darwin award material...