7 ms·

What did Nietzsche mean by that?

pmoriarty 7y ago
He never said. Nietzsche wrote very aphoristically, and it's often up to the reader to make sense of it. For me, this saying resonates because I've found that when I think of suicide I feel better because it makes me think that after my death I won't have any more of the troubles that plague me in life. It'll be a relief. In a way, it's hope. It also, I think, for a time gives me the feeling of control over my life. The trick, though, is not to actually act on one's intention. I guess I'm pretty good at procrastinating, which has hurt me a lot in many other aspects of life, but it's good in this one sense.
- nonbirithm 7y ago
  But can a reader who's truly depressed think as rationally as Nietzsche and make sense of it? Because of the views around suicide and how it can be seen as an "out" for issues that are actually only temporary, associating suicide with hope in any sense could be counterproductive. You have to make these people understand. Sometimes they never intend to understand, and only take the parts that validate their preexisting notions. Suicide and hope in the same statement.
  - barrenko 7y ago
    One could also view seriously depressed people as extremely lucid. (If it's not brain damage induced of course)
    - jshevek 7y ago
      Reflecting on the states of mind I have when I am or am not depressed, I would say I'm far more lucid and have a more accurate (if less broad) worldview when I'm depressed.
    - Hercuros 7y ago
      I never really understood the point of view that depressed people somehow are more realistic, seeing things as they “really are”, while non-depressed people are overly optimistic. Maybe it’s true in the limited setting of a study, but depressed people tend to behave in ways that are basically irrational and counterproductive: staying in bed, passively ruminating about the future, procrastinating and avoiding useful/enjoyable activities, etc. These are not the actions of a rational person, and many (perhaps not all) depressed people would feel somewhat better if they didn’t engage in these types of activities. It’s definitely hard to change this type of behavior, and change is not a magic cure, but it is a useful component. The reason why I believe the “depressed people are just seeing the world as it really is” line of thinking is harmful is that it encourages people to believe that their depression is simply the result of their accurate world view, and that trying to change things in order to feel better would mean they have to fool themselves.
- sifar 7y ago
  I would think it meant either that when you think about suicide - it is the lowest you can go and things would improve from there. The other way to interpret is that thinking about suicide makes you come face to face with the enormity of death and which consequently helps you get through.
zentiggr 7y ago
I have interpreted it, and some similar comments, as a way to lessen the pain of expectations and feeling like you're falling short of your own life. The emotional distance between "perfectly healthy and wonderful" is much much further than "I really could end it and it wouldn't be much difference". At the worst points, looking at it from the bottom of the hole to just that little bit up, makes it bearable enough to eventually start something, and slowly work back up toward okay.
5cott0 7y ago
Probably a sentiment he borrowed from Schopenhauer. “They tell us that suicide is the greatest piece of cowardice; that only a madman could be guilty of it; and other insipidities of the same kind; or else they make the nonsensical remark that suicide is wrong; when it is quite obvious that there is nothing in the world to which every man has a more unassailable title than to his own life and person.“
ta999999171 7y ago
"Worst case scenario, you can step off the train!"

He never said. Nietzsche wrote very aphoristically, and it's often up to the reader to make sense of it. For me, this saying resonates because I've found that when I think of suicide I feel better because it makes me think that after my death I won't have any more of the troubles that plague me in life. It'll be a relief. In a way, it's hope. It also, I think, for a time gives me the feeling of control over my life. The trick, though, is not to actually act on one's intention. I guess I'm pretty good at procrastinating, which has hurt me a lot in many other aspects of life, but it's good in this one sense.

nonbirithm 7y ago
But can a reader who's truly depressed think as rationally as Nietzsche and make sense of it? Because of the views around suicide and how it can be seen as an "out" for issues that are actually only temporary, associating suicide with hope in any sense could be counterproductive. You have to make these people understand. Sometimes they never intend to understand, and only take the parts that validate their preexisting notions. Suicide and hope in the same statement.
- barrenko 7y ago
  One could also view seriously depressed people as extremely lucid. (If it's not brain damage induced of course)
  - jshevek 7y ago
    Reflecting on the states of mind I have when I am or am not depressed, I would say I'm far more lucid and have a more accurate (if less broad) worldview when I'm depressed.
  - Hercuros 7y ago
    I never really understood the point of view that depressed people somehow are more realistic, seeing things as they “really are”, while non-depressed people are overly optimistic. Maybe it’s true in the limited setting of a study, but depressed people tend to behave in ways that are basically irrational and counterproductive: staying in bed, passively ruminating about the future, procrastinating and avoiding useful/enjoyable activities, etc. These are not the actions of a rational person, and many (perhaps not all) depressed people would feel somewhat better if they didn’t engage in these types of activities. It’s definitely hard to change this type of behavior, and change is not a magic cure, but it is a useful component. The reason why I believe the “depressed people are just seeing the world as it really is” line of thinking is harmful is that it encourages people to believe that their depression is simply the result of their accurate world view, and that trying to change things in order to feel better would mean they have to fool themselves.
sifar 7y ago
I would think it meant either that when you think about suicide - it is the lowest you can go and things would improve from there. The other way to interpret is that thinking about suicide makes you come face to face with the enormity of death and which consequently helps you get through.

zentiggr 7y ago

I have interpreted it, and some similar comments, as a way to lessen the pain of expectations and feeling like you're falling short of your own life. The emotional distance between "perfectly healthy and wonderful" is much much further than "I really could end it and it wouldn't be much difference". At the worst points, looking at it from the bottom of the hole to just that little bit up, makes it bearable enough to eventually start something, and slowly work back up toward okay.

5cott0 7y ago

Probably a sentiment he borrowed from Schopenhauer. “They tell us that suicide is the greatest piece of cowardice; that only a madman could be guilty of it; and other insipidities of the same kind; or else they make the nonsensical remark that suicide is wrong; when it is quite obvious that there is nothing in the world to which every man has a more unassailable title than to his own life and person.“

ta999999171 7y ago

"Worst case scenario, you can step off the train!"