3 ms·

> I don't think this is accurate Yes it is accurate. It is very accurate. The garbage studies routinely dumped on us by Big Pharma have been continually debunk

> I don't think this is accurate Yes it is accurate. It is very accurate. The garbage studies routinely dumped on us by Big Pharma have been continually debunked, reversed, and retracted after the raw data comes out (often in lawsuits). Nevermind the complete absence of long-term studies or any studies that reflect the actually usage of these drugs in the real world.

wbronitsky 7y ago
Here we go, actual data about SSRIs vs the placebo effect: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4172306/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4172306/ It would be super cool if we all took the time to cite data that back up our assertions instead of just insisting that our ideas are correct.
- nitrogen 7y ago
  I'll quote the lede from the abstract so people know what they are clicking on: Instead of curing depression, popular antidepressants may induce a biological vulnerability making people more likely to become depressed in the future. Nobody currently taking antidepressants should stop them without very careful planning and consideration of whether they should and how, but the same very strong consideration should be given before starting them for long term use, too (with a professional ideally, which I am not).
  - mcguire 7y ago
    On the other hand, from the end of the article, "My colleagues and I have conducted a meta-analysis of various treatments for depression, including antidepressants, psychotherapy, the combination of psychotherapy and antidepressants, and “alternative” treatments, which included acupuncture and physical exercise (Khan, Faucett, Lichtenberg, Kirsch, & Brown, 2012). We found no significant differences between these treatments or within different types of psychotherapy." So the first thing you should know about the treatment of depression: Nothing works very well.
  - wbronitsky 7y ago
    I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone here. I'm merely asserting that we should use facts to back up our arguments.
Pfhreak 7y ago
> We identified 28 552 citations and of these included 522 trials comprising 116 477 participants. In terms of efficacy, all antidepressants were more effective than placebo. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(17)32802-7/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6... I dunno, studies seem to suggest otherwise. I think it's terribly irresponsible to be telling people not to take medications that can help them.
- rjkennedy98 7y ago
  You don't know. My brother is a doctor who writes papers on meta-analysis. The Cipriani paper is trash. The actual effect size is LESS than in the paper posted in this thread (Kirch et al) which was featured on 60 minutes about the placebo effect. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6597641/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6597641/

wbronitsky 7y ago

Here we go, actual data about SSRIs vs the placebo effect: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4172306/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4172306/ It would be super cool if we all took the time to cite data that back up our assertions instead of just insisting that our ideas are correct.

nitrogen 7y ago
I'll quote the lede from the abstract so people know what they are clicking on: Instead of curing depression, popular antidepressants may induce a biological vulnerability making people more likely to become depressed in the future. Nobody currently taking antidepressants should stop them without very careful planning and consideration of whether they should and how, but the same very strong consideration should be given before starting them for long term use, too (with a professional ideally, which I am not).
- mcguire 7y ago
  On the other hand, from the end of the article, "My colleagues and I have conducted a meta-analysis of various treatments for depression, including antidepressants, psychotherapy, the combination of psychotherapy and antidepressants, and “alternative” treatments, which included acupuncture and physical exercise (Khan, Faucett, Lichtenberg, Kirsch, & Brown, 2012). We found no significant differences between these treatments or within different types of psychotherapy." So the first thing you should know about the treatment of depression: Nothing works very well.
- wbronitsky 7y ago
  I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone here. I'm merely asserting that we should use facts to back up our arguments.

Pfhreak 7y ago

> We identified 28 552 citations and of these included 522 trials comprising 116 477 participants. In terms of efficacy, all antidepressants were more effective than placebo. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(17)32802-7/fulltext https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6... I dunno, studies seem to suggest otherwise. I think it's terribly irresponsible to be telling people not to take medications that can help them.

rjkennedy98 7y ago
You don't know. My brother is a doctor who writes papers on meta-analysis. The Cipriani paper is trash. The actual effect size is LESS than in the paper posted in this thread (Kirch et al) which was featured on 60 minutes about the placebo effect. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6597641/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6597641/