4 ms·

Being elected in Kazakhstan makes them legitimate in Kazakhstan, it doesn't make their international behaviour acceptable to everyone.

lmm 7y ago
We're not talking about some pariah state here. Kazakhstan is pretty close to a model international citizen; they've not started any wars, they're not accused of hacking or spying on anyone or interfering in other countries. It's hard to imagine any reasonable standard that would exclude Kazakhstan but include enough countries to reasonably qualify as international.
- microcolonel 7y ago
  There's nothing "model" about intercepting and surveilling all TLS traffic in your country. Nobody should get the impression that they are legitimately connecting to Google or Y Combinator when they are actually connecting to the government of Kazakhstan's SIGINT apparatus. The government of Kazakhstan used the CA inappropriately, to impersonate at least 37 domains. That is at least illegal in itself, as far as international trademark law is concerned. It contravenes all norms of international business. In short, the claim that the government of Kazakhstan is a "model international citizen" is particularly laughable in the context of their abuse of their root certificate, and you'd be an absolute fool to trust it when connecting to hosts outside Kazakhstan (assuming you kinda have no choice when doing business with hosts within Kazakhstan).
  - lmm 7y ago
    > The government of Kazakhstan used the CA inappropriately, to impersonate at least 37 domains. That is at least illegal in itself, as far as international trademark law is concerned. It contravenes all norms of international business. Back when I worked for a Fortune 500 company they did exactly the same thing. So no, it's a completely normal, widely accepted practice for international businesses. (Also note that at least one major US ISP injects its own "content" into third-party websites).
    - microcolonel 7y ago
      > Back when I worked for a Fortune 500 company they did exactly the same thing. No, it is not the same thing. Kazakhstan is not your employer intercepting your work computer's traffic while you're at work, it's a country intercepting all of your communications toward state goals. You can't just "quit" Kazakhstan.
      - lmm 7y ago
        It's exactly the same thing in terms of trademarks and impersonation, which is what you purported to be concerned about.

lmm 7y ago

We're not talking about some pariah state here. Kazakhstan is pretty close to a model international citizen; they've not started any wars, they're not accused of hacking or spying on anyone or interfering in other countries. It's hard to imagine any reasonable standard that would exclude Kazakhstan but include enough countries to reasonably qualify as international.

microcolonel 7y ago
There's nothing "model" about intercepting and surveilling all TLS traffic in your country. Nobody should get the impression that they are legitimately connecting to Google or Y Combinator when they are actually connecting to the government of Kazakhstan's SIGINT apparatus. The government of Kazakhstan used the CA inappropriately, to impersonate at least 37 domains. That is at least illegal in itself, as far as international trademark law is concerned. It contravenes all norms of international business. In short, the claim that the government of Kazakhstan is a "model international citizen" is particularly laughable in the context of their abuse of their root certificate, and you'd be an absolute fool to trust it when connecting to hosts outside Kazakhstan (assuming you kinda have no choice when doing business with hosts within Kazakhstan).
- lmm 7y ago
  > The government of Kazakhstan used the CA inappropriately, to impersonate at least 37 domains. That is at least illegal in itself, as far as international trademark law is concerned. It contravenes all norms of international business. Back when I worked for a Fortune 500 company they did exactly the same thing. So no, it's a completely normal, widely accepted practice for international businesses. (Also note that at least one major US ISP injects its own "content" into third-party websites).
  - microcolonel 7y ago
    > Back when I worked for a Fortune 500 company they did exactly the same thing. No, it is not the same thing. Kazakhstan is not your employer intercepting your work computer's traffic while you're at work, it's a country intercepting all of your communications toward state goals. You can't just "quit" Kazakhstan.
    - lmm 7y ago
      It's exactly the same thing in terms of trademarks and impersonation, which is what you purported to be concerned about.