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> 1. The film Gattaca (1999), in addition to being an excellent, inspiring film all around, centers on an aspiring astronaut's upcoming trip to Titan. Highly re

> 1. The film Gattaca (1999), in addition to being an excellent, inspiring film all around, centers on an aspiring astronaut's upcoming trip to Titan. Highly recommended. Gattaca is one of my favorite films. I agree that it is excellent, but I'm not sure it is inspiring. Gattaca is about how the system, society, circumstances and expectations beyond your control are an albatross around everyone's neck and ultimately harm and defeat the individual. In Gattaca, both Vincent and Jerome are tragic figures as they are both victims of expectations. Jerome is burdened by high expectations and Vincent by low expectations and those societal expectations are a hurdle to the lives they want to lead. Ultimately those societal expectations crushes Jerome and turns him into a cynical cripple. Vincent's societal expectations places a chip on his shoulder which costs him his family and his identity. And in the end, neither Jerome nor Vincent achieve their dreams as Jerome burns himself to death and Vincent dies on his way to Titan due to his "degenerate" heart. In a way, Gattaca is about two people on their own suicide mission as they rage against society/expectations. If you watch the movie from the beginning, you'll realize that both fully know that they are going to die/kill themselves doing what they are doing. It's a tragedy.

keiferski 7y ago
> Vincent dies on his way to Titan due to his "degenerate" heart. Vincent definitely doesn't die on his way to Titan. I'm not sure where you got that from. Jerome also self-immolates because he realizes that his purpose is now completed, not because he is cynical and depressed. His silver Olympic medal also turns gold in the fire, which is supposed to suggest that he has achieved his true purpose in life. In any case, I see the film as inspiring because the two characters still find purpose and meaning in their nightmarish world: Vincent through achieving his goal of becoming an astronaut and Jerome through providing his identity and biological material for a greater purpose. "I got the better end of the deal. I only lent you my body - you lent me your dream."
- dntbnmpls 7y ago
  > Vincent definitely doesn't die on his way to Titan. I'm not sure where you got that from. It's alluded to a few times in the movie. Vincent never saves anything for the swim back. Vincent specifically mentions that he is living on borrowed time as he has surpassed the "number of beats expected of his heart". And there is the treadmill scene where he was barely able to hang on. Remember that the training was to select people who can physically survive the journey and thrive on titan. Not to mention Vincent doesn't bring any of Jerome's urine,blood,etc with him to Titan. Do you really believe they don't check your identification on titan? Also, the lock of hair that Jerome gave to Vincent is an acknowledgment of Vincent that Jerome isn't going to make it and of course that Vincent isn't going to make it either. Finally, the last words of Vincent: "For someone who was never meant for this world, I must confess, I'm suddenly having a hard time leaving it. Of course, they say every atom in our bodies was once a part of a star. Maybe I'm not leaving; maybe I'm going home." > Jerome also self-immolates because he realizes that his purpose is now completed, not because he is cynical and depressed. That's a very upbeat view. But people don't normally celebrate fulfilling their purpose by burning themselves to death. Some believe that Vincent's death symbolizes going to heaven since he overachieved and Jerome's death is hell ( burning ) because he underachieved. > Vincent through achieving his goal of becoming an astronaut and Jerome through providing his identity and biological material for a greater purpose. But there's the rub, Vincent didn't become an astronaut, "Jerome" did. Even when Vincent succeeded, he didn't. > "I got the better end of the deal. I only lent you my body - you lent me your dream." Yes. And neither achieved their dream and both died at the end. And Jerome also left enough blood,urine,etc for two lifetimes... Think about what that really means. I used to view Gattaca as you did. It was inspirational like Rudy. But then I watched it more and started noticing more aspects of the movie and it is far deeper and far more tragic than a generic inspirational movie. It's a tragedy.
  - keiferski 7y ago
    I interpreted all of the things you listed as indications that statistics and scientific analysis have limitations and can't predict success or failure, not as indications that he would fail and die in the end. This is perhaps the main theme of the film: "There is no gene for the human spirit." You seem to have a thesis that the film is a tragedy and are working backwards from there. This goes against essentially everything in the film: its uplifting soundtrack, its message of overcoming the obstacles that society places in our way, and its argument that sometimes our true purpose is not to excel individually, but as a help and teammate to others. > But there's the rub, Vincent didn't become an astronaut, "Jerome" did. Even when Vincent succeeded, he didn't. Jerome is just his name and saying he didn't succeed because his achievements weren't listed under his own name seems a bit shallow, as if the only definition of success is fame. And again, a major theme of the story is that the two men are more capable of achieving great things together than apart. Remember that neither Vincent nor Eugene (Jerome) were in a good place prior to meeting each other. Jerome, the astronaut, is the successful identity created from the merging of both men, not simply one man using another's name.
    - dntbnmpls 7y ago
      > I interpreted all of the things you listed as indications that statistics and scientific analysis have limitations and can't predict success or failure, not as indications that he would fail and die in the end. I did so for the "heart beats". But every other point has nothing to do with statistics or scientific analysis. I really can't say definitively that he died on his way to titan, but the evidence is fairly overwhelming. It wouldn't have been hinted at so much in the movie and the movie would not have ended with that quote otherwise. > And again, a major theme of the story is that the two men are more capable of achieving great things together than apart. That's a bit of a reach but you are entitled to the view. > You seem to have a thesis that the film is a tragedy and are working backwards from there. No. I watched Gattaca as a kid and loved it and saw it as an inspirational movie. Everything you believed, I believed. Then I got older and watched the movie a few more times. My thesis changed from inspirational to tragedy. As I said, my view of the movie changed. And I love the movie more now because it is richer, deeper and more consequential than a good simplistic feel good inspirational movie. > And remember that neither Vincent nor Eugene (Jerome) were in a good place prior to meeting each other. They weren't in a good place at the end either. Anyways, you are entitled to your view. I used to view it like you and I suspect it's most people's first impressions when they first watch the movie. But after repeated viewing, it's hard to watch someone burning himself to death and a man's looking into space and "going home" as inspirational. There are inspirational aspects to the film, but I don't think that's what the movie is really about. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
- bryanrasmussen 7y ago
  since the film ends with him leaving we don't know if he dies or not, but outlook does not exactly look promising. Then again nothing of Vincent's life has ever looked promising.
  - Fezzik 7y ago
    We cannot be sure, sure, but absolutely everything in the movie indicates that Vincent survives. The whole story arc for him is that he overcomes everything, even rescuing his genetically superior brother from drowning on the way, and prevails. Edit, to add: the name Vincent is derived from the Greek/Latin word for conquering/winning... so there’s that too.
    - keiferski 7y ago
      - Vincent Freeman = Victorious Free Man - Jerome Morrow = Sacred Name of Tomorrow/The Future > Jerome is a masculine name of Greek origin, derived from the Greek given name Ἱερώνυμος, Hierōnymos, "sacred name"; from ἱερός, hierós, "sacred", and ὄνυμα, ónyma, an alternative form of ὄνομα, ónoma, "name". The names chosen were actually pretty genius, especially considering that Jerome's name/identity is the one used "to build the future", and in the last conversation Vincent has (with the doctor), is referred to as Vincent, his real name.
throwmamatrain 7y ago
Very interesting take! I haven't rewatched it, and now I have a reason. I thought the ending was open ended for the reasons discussed further on. Vincent gets to the rocket which was the goal. I also wondered about the cache of materials Jerome leaves behind, was it that he thought Vincent might stay?
- jacobush 7y ago
  ... maybe for when he comes back from Titan. Given Titan is a more spartan outpost, and everyone there is presumably accounted for anyway, given you can't exactly stroll over to Titan without going on a rocketship first - maybe for when Vincent comes back from his Titan mission, for retirement or whatever.

keiferski 7y ago

> Vincent dies on his way to Titan due to his "degenerate" heart. Vincent definitely doesn't die on his way to Titan. I'm not sure where you got that from. Jerome also self-immolates because he realizes that his purpose is now completed, not because he is cynical and depressed. His silver Olympic medal also turns gold in the fire, which is supposed to suggest that he has achieved his true purpose in life. In any case, I see the film as inspiring because the two characters still find purpose and meaning in their nightmarish world: Vincent through achieving his goal of becoming an astronaut and Jerome through providing his identity and biological material for a greater purpose. "I got the better end of the deal. I only lent you my body - you lent me your dream."

dntbnmpls 7y ago
> Vincent definitely doesn't die on his way to Titan. I'm not sure where you got that from. It's alluded to a few times in the movie. Vincent never saves anything for the swim back. Vincent specifically mentions that he is living on borrowed time as he has surpassed the "number of beats expected of his heart". And there is the treadmill scene where he was barely able to hang on. Remember that the training was to select people who can physically survive the journey and thrive on titan. Not to mention Vincent doesn't bring any of Jerome's urine,blood,etc with him to Titan. Do you really believe they don't check your identification on titan? Also, the lock of hair that Jerome gave to Vincent is an acknowledgment of Vincent that Jerome isn't going to make it and of course that Vincent isn't going to make it either. Finally, the last words of Vincent: "For someone who was never meant for this world, I must confess, I'm suddenly having a hard time leaving it. Of course, they say every atom in our bodies was once a part of a star. Maybe I'm not leaving; maybe I'm going home." > Jerome also self-immolates because he realizes that his purpose is now completed, not because he is cynical and depressed. That's a very upbeat view. But people don't normally celebrate fulfilling their purpose by burning themselves to death. Some believe that Vincent's death symbolizes going to heaven since he overachieved and Jerome's death is hell ( burning ) because he underachieved. > Vincent through achieving his goal of becoming an astronaut and Jerome through providing his identity and biological material for a greater purpose. But there's the rub, Vincent didn't become an astronaut, "Jerome" did. Even when Vincent succeeded, he didn't. > "I got the better end of the deal. I only lent you my body - you lent me your dream." Yes. And neither achieved their dream and both died at the end. And Jerome also left enough blood,urine,etc for two lifetimes... Think about what that really means. I used to view Gattaca as you did. It was inspirational like Rudy. But then I watched it more and started noticing more aspects of the movie and it is far deeper and far more tragic than a generic inspirational movie. It's a tragedy.
- keiferski 7y ago
  I interpreted all of the things you listed as indications that statistics and scientific analysis have limitations and can't predict success or failure, not as indications that he would fail and die in the end. This is perhaps the main theme of the film: "There is no gene for the human spirit." You seem to have a thesis that the film is a tragedy and are working backwards from there. This goes against essentially everything in the film: its uplifting soundtrack, its message of overcoming the obstacles that society places in our way, and its argument that sometimes our true purpose is not to excel individually, but as a help and teammate to others. > But there's the rub, Vincent didn't become an astronaut, "Jerome" did. Even when Vincent succeeded, he didn't. Jerome is just his name and saying he didn't succeed because his achievements weren't listed under his own name seems a bit shallow, as if the only definition of success is fame. And again, a major theme of the story is that the two men are more capable of achieving great things together than apart. Remember that neither Vincent nor Eugene (Jerome) were in a good place prior to meeting each other. Jerome, the astronaut, is the successful identity created from the merging of both men, not simply one man using another's name.
  - dntbnmpls 7y ago
    > I interpreted all of the things you listed as indications that statistics and scientific analysis have limitations and can't predict success or failure, not as indications that he would fail and die in the end. I did so for the "heart beats". But every other point has nothing to do with statistics or scientific analysis. I really can't say definitively that he died on his way to titan, but the evidence is fairly overwhelming. It wouldn't have been hinted at so much in the movie and the movie would not have ended with that quote otherwise. > And again, a major theme of the story is that the two men are more capable of achieving great things together than apart. That's a bit of a reach but you are entitled to the view. > You seem to have a thesis that the film is a tragedy and are working backwards from there. No. I watched Gattaca as a kid and loved it and saw it as an inspirational movie. Everything you believed, I believed. Then I got older and watched the movie a few more times. My thesis changed from inspirational to tragedy. As I said, my view of the movie changed. And I love the movie more now because it is richer, deeper and more consequential than a good simplistic feel good inspirational movie. > And remember that neither Vincent nor Eugene (Jerome) were in a good place prior to meeting each other. They weren't in a good place at the end either. Anyways, you are entitled to your view. I used to view it like you and I suspect it's most people's first impressions when they first watch the movie. But after repeated viewing, it's hard to watch someone burning himself to death and a man's looking into space and "going home" as inspirational. There are inspirational aspects to the film, but I don't think that's what the movie is really about. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
bryanrasmussen 7y ago
since the film ends with him leaving we don't know if he dies or not, but outlook does not exactly look promising. Then again nothing of Vincent's life has ever looked promising.
- Fezzik 7y ago
  We cannot be sure, sure, but absolutely everything in the movie indicates that Vincent survives. The whole story arc for him is that he overcomes everything, even rescuing his genetically superior brother from drowning on the way, and prevails. Edit, to add: the name Vincent is derived from the Greek/Latin word for conquering/winning... so there’s that too.
  - keiferski 7y ago
    - Vincent Freeman = Victorious Free Man - Jerome Morrow = Sacred Name of Tomorrow/The Future > Jerome is a masculine name of Greek origin, derived from the Greek given name Ἱερώνυμος, Hierōnymos, "sacred name"; from ἱερός, hierós, "sacred", and ὄνυμα, ónyma, an alternative form of ὄνομα, ónoma, "name". The names chosen were actually pretty genius, especially considering that Jerome's name/identity is the one used "to build the future", and in the last conversation Vincent has (with the doctor), is referred to as Vincent, his real name.

throwmamatrain 7y ago

Very interesting take! I haven't rewatched it, and now I have a reason. I thought the ending was open ended for the reasons discussed further on. Vincent gets to the rocket which was the goal. I also wondered about the cache of materials Jerome leaves behind, was it that he thought Vincent might stay?

jacobush 7y ago
... maybe for when he comes back from Titan. Given Titan is a more spartan outpost, and everyone there is presumably accounted for anyway, given you can't exactly stroll over to Titan without going on a rocketship first - maybe for when Vincent comes back from his Titan mission, for retirement or whatever.