3 ms·

> trying to get rid of her without doing the proper legwork to establish that she failed in any measuable fashion. i was fired before with one day notice. It

> trying to get rid of her without doing the proper legwork to establish that she failed in any measuable fashion. i was fired before with one day notice. It came as total shock to me since i had very good preformance reviews before that. I researched this a lot and found out that employer can fire you for no reason whatsover. They don't have to establish anything.

pergadad 7y ago
Seems to depend on the state in the US whether that is possible or not... And in the rest of the developed world this obviously just isn't possible at all.
- dominotw 7y ago
  Yea I am in one of the at will states like the person in question.
  - michaelmrose 7y ago
    At will isn't a sufficient description of a complex legal situation.
    - dominotw 7y ago
      ok. yea if she can prove that she was fired based discrimination. >trying to get rid of her without doing the proper legwork to establish that she failed in any measuable fashion. I responded to this quoted comment sayin that employer has to establish poor performance. I was fired with any sort of "establish" and i found out that i couldn't do anything.
txcwpalpha 7y ago
It's much different if the person being fired is pregnant (or of another protected class). The company has to go through many hoops to make sure they have valid, documented reasons to fire someone who is pregnant so as to not be misconstrued that the reason for the firing was the pregnancy.
- gbronner 7y ago
  They don't have to do that. Bigger companies do that to avoid lawsuits, and to ensure that they are fair, but small companies can and do take HR risks. It is perfectly legal to fire a pregnant employee for any reason except that she is pregnant.
  - michaelmrose 7y ago
    It's actually not and the exact rules vary a lot by state. https://employment.findlaw.com/losing-a-job/at-will-employment-and-wrongful-termination.html https://employment.findlaw.com/losing-a-job/at-will-employme...
- oh_sigh 7y ago
  This is just not true. Companies in at-will states don't need to do any of that - they may choose to, but they don't need to. Literally everyone is a member of a protected class, because everyone has a race, a sex assigned at birth, and a national origin.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - michaelmrose 7y ago
    Good point everyone needs to be documenting why they terminate people so that if they accuse you of firing them for being this or that class you can slap a folder of documentation on the table. Realistically being fired for being a pregnant female is a thing and being fired for being a white dude from Oregon isn't.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
  - pmiller2 7y ago
    Technically true, but good luck convincing a judge you were fired because you're a white cisgender male in an industry dominated by white cisgender males.
michaelmrose 7y ago
At will employment means that you can fire anyone you like whenever you like for any reason as long as they can't afford to sue you. There is a grab bag of exceptions that vary by state. Please see https://employment.findlaw.com/losing-a-job/at-will-employment-and-wrongful-termination.html https://employment.findlaw.com/losing-a-job/at-will-employme... I'll excerpt a relevant part >Covenant of Good Faith Exception >Recognized in a small minority of states, including California, this exception reads a covenant of good faith and fair dealing into every employment relationship. This exception means either that employer personnel decisions are subject to a "just cause" standard or that terminations in bad faith or motivated by malice are prohibited. Lambda is based in CA. Even hr at penny ante jobs establishes a narrative and documentation for reasons to terminate for good reason.

pergadad 7y ago

Seems to depend on the state in the US whether that is possible or not... And in the rest of the developed world this obviously just isn't possible at all.

dominotw 7y ago
Yea I am in one of the at will states like the person in question.
- michaelmrose 7y ago
  At will isn't a sufficient description of a complex legal situation.
  - dominotw 7y ago
    ok. yea if she can prove that she was fired based discrimination. >trying to get rid of her without doing the proper legwork to establish that she failed in any measuable fashion. I responded to this quoted comment sayin that employer has to establish poor performance. I was fired with any sort of "establish" and i found out that i couldn't do anything.

txcwpalpha 7y ago

It's much different if the person being fired is pregnant (or of another protected class). The company has to go through many hoops to make sure they have valid, documented reasons to fire someone who is pregnant so as to not be misconstrued that the reason for the firing was the pregnancy.

gbronner 7y ago
They don't have to do that. Bigger companies do that to avoid lawsuits, and to ensure that they are fair, but small companies can and do take HR risks. It is perfectly legal to fire a pregnant employee for any reason except that she is pregnant.
- michaelmrose 7y ago
  It's actually not and the exact rules vary a lot by state. https://employment.findlaw.com/losing-a-job/at-will-employment-and-wrongful-termination.html https://employment.findlaw.com/losing-a-job/at-will-employme...
oh_sigh 7y ago
This is just not true. Companies in at-will states don't need to do any of that - they may choose to, but they don't need to. Literally everyone is a member of a protected class, because everyone has a race, a sex assigned at birth, and a national origin.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- michaelmrose 7y ago
  Good point everyone needs to be documenting why they terminate people so that if they accuse you of firing them for being this or that class you can slap a folder of documentation on the table. Realistically being fired for being a pregnant female is a thing and being fired for being a white dude from Oregon isn't.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- pmiller2 7y ago
  Technically true, but good luck convincing a judge you were fired because you're a white cisgender male in an industry dominated by white cisgender males.

michaelmrose 7y ago

At will employment means that you can fire anyone you like whenever you like for any reason as long as they can't afford to sue you. There is a grab bag of exceptions that vary by state. Please see https://employment.findlaw.com/losing-a-job/at-will-employment-and-wrongful-termination.html https://employment.findlaw.com/losing-a-job/at-will-employme... I'll excerpt a relevant part >Covenant of Good Faith Exception >Recognized in a small minority of states, including California, this exception reads a covenant of good faith and fair dealing into every employment relationship. This exception means either that employer personnel decisions are subject to a "just cause" standard or that terminations in bad faith or motivated by malice are prohibited. Lambda is based in CA. Even hr at penny ante jobs establishes a narrative and documentation for reasons to terminate for good reason.