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I am in no way defending PornHub, but how exactly should it be [self] moderated? Can we use AI to detect underage and drunk people? PornHub already uses some c

by adontz 7y ago

I am in no way defending PornHub, but how exactly should it be [self] moderated? Can we use AI to detect underage and drunk people? PornHub already uses some computer vision technology to recognize kind of sex taking place and put time-codes on video. What are limitations of this technology? Can CV detect drunk person and not confuse facial expressions with an orgasm? We have seen epic failures of fully automated AI in our industry, like YouTube taking down videos with birds signing for DCMA copyright violations. Also, consent and legal age are defined very differently across the world and even within US. Which jurisdiction to refer to and why? Video can be legal for one web site visitor and illegal for another one at the same time. What to do in that case? Can we have some kind of feedback form to report video as... what exactly? Private? Leaked? Amateur videos are very common. Independent models make a living from posting videos. Any feedback system will be abused by competing content providers, which are private persons mostly, not legal entities. So reporting party should take selfie for identification or what exactly? What about all hard core BDSM content, when modeling non consensual sex is the very goal. Are we gonna ban BDSM? What about all fetishes, which may include underage sex fetish, rape play, etc. which when performed by adults is legal. Will computer vision recognize these exceptions? Will people do? Should we make people make final decisions? YouTube moderators deal with mental issues. Honestly, I have no idea what kind of terrible job should be moderating porn videos. I understand that PornHub makes money, violates privacy and should be regulated, but without sane solution we'll just punish everyone without really solving the problem. New keywords will be coined to search for specific content, that's it. We already have lots of them, like MILF, ATM, DP. We'll get just DT for drunk teen, that's it. And when it'll get banned (for instance "rape" is a banned word on PornHub), another keyword will be coined.

ocdtrekkie 7y ago
Why should AI be employed? Why is fully-automated superhuman scale something companies should be allowed to achieve? I mean, let's be real: How many new pornographic video uploads per day does PornHub actually need to serve it's audience? And the vast majority of content on PornHub likely falls into two categories: Major brand videos, in which they can work directly with the legal entities responsible for them, and user uploads of primarily copyright-infringing content. The former can be streamlined by connecting directly with brands, making sure they have all their legal ducks in order and that all of their performers are properly employed. For the latter, a slower, non-automated approval process is probably perfectly fine. Individual/amateur users who want to publish their own content could enter into a business relationship with the site, to achieve a pipeline closer to the first group, establishing a channel/brand that identifies the performers in the video and verifies their consent. Fetish/BDSM content is arguably pretty important to the platform (and sex positivity in general), but again, my guess is a large portion comes from established adult film brands. If PornHub works directly with the actual people filming the video, verifies performer age eligibility and consent, and then approves the videos, there is no problem with the content of the video shown itself. Unchecked open upload of whatever content a user has on their computer has no real need to exist here. At the very least, every video should be associated with the performers present in the video, and upon the revocation of consent from that performer, all of the videos containing them could be removed and prevented from being added again. This not only prevents abuse of non-consensual performers, but ensures the revenue generated from a video actually makes it back to consenting performers, as piracy is no longer possible using the platform.
- adontz 7y ago
  >> How many new pornographic video uploads per day does PornHub actually need to serve it's audience? As much as possible? It was 13 videos per minute in 2019. Each minute almost three hours of content are uploaded. >> And the vast majority of content on PornHub likely falls into two categories: Major brand videos, in which they can work directly with the legal entities responsible for them This assumption is very natural, but days of professional studios are gone. There are about 100 thousands amateur models registered on PornHub. >> For the latter, a slower, non-automated approval process is probably perfectly fine. Even if we'll estimate that just half of content is amateur, which is not so, PornHub would need at least 100 moderators working simultaneously at each moment of time to review every moment of all uploaded videos. I don't think anyone can view porn for 8 hours per day, so it's at least 4 shifts. Take into account vacations, and other things, that is easily 500-1000 of trained moderators who will know specific of genres, and will not punish fetish performers. And they'll need offices, computers, help of psychologists, security check because they can be source of major leak. I think we are talking about tens of millions dollars now. >> my guess is a large portion comes from established adult film brands There are big BDSM brands like Kink, but if you sum up minutes of content, it's mostly amateurs. >> If PornHub works directly with the actual people filming the video, verifies performer age eligibility and consent, and then approves the videos, there is no problem with the content of the video shown itself. So PornHub now has to perform full KYC, because US citizen would not know what Hungarian driver ID looks like. This is not a cheap service at all. And also PornHub now has verify that videos posted contain only verified identified models, which I have no idea how to perform. Also, now you enforce PornHub to keep a lot of Personally identifiable information about all performers which does not sound like a good idea in the first place. >> Unchecked open upload of whatever content a user has on their computer has no real need to exist here. At the very least, every video should be associated with the performers present in the video, and upon the revocation of consent from that performer, all of the videos containing them could be removed and prevented from being added again. You will just punish PornHub for being big, there is no way to enforce right to be forgotten across entire Internet.
  - ocdtrekkie 7y ago
    > As much as possible? Why? A given viewer is going to watch how many minutes of content a day? Even accepting for a wide spectrum of preferences, there's no reason PornHub needs three hours of new content a minute. Nobody's "already watched everything on PornHub", have they? If they can't manage it ethically, they shouldn't be allowed to. > I think we are talking about tens of millions dollars now. Good thing PornHub's reported 2015 revenue was nearly half a billion. They can afford to operate ethically. > So PornHub now has to perform full KYC Not really know-your-customer. In this case it's know-your-content-provider. I certainly don't suggest every viewer of porn needs to register. But every publisher of it, including amateur channels, should. > This is not a cheap service at all. Again, this company operates on a half billion dollar a year scale. They can afford to hire someone who can verify what a Hungarian driver's license looks like. They aren't poor.
cdumler 7y ago
> I am in no way defending PornHub, but how exactly should it be [self] moderated? Bad question. Moderation isn't a solution. It's in direct conflict with its bottom line. As with anything that has serious consequences it should be regulated so that ethical considerations are followed. Porn produced should have a trail of paperwork tracking and identifying the production to individuals. Failure to have proper paperwork results people (content creator and/or distributors) being fined and going to jail. It's completely possible to produce amateur, fantasy, BSDM, MILF looking material with consenting individuals. The problem is that sexual videos can be distributed easily and without regard (often without knowledge) of the people involved such that the work is spread long before the affected individuals can know what has been done to them. Simply put, unregulated material should be considered illegal.
- adontz 7y ago
  Paperwork is not a solution at all. Porn performers must have right for anonymity because it's not safe to be porn actress/actor. Old U.S. story https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorelei_Lee_(actress) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorelei_Lee_(actress) Citing concerns of personal safety, Lee requested to testify under her stage name; the prosecution objected, arguing that allowing her to do so "gives some air of legitimacy to the porn star" (which Lee later called "incredibly insulting") and that "she shouldn't be treated any differently than anyone else in this case".[35] The case was ultimately dismissed on July 16, 2010,[36] before Lee was scheduled to testify. New Russian story https://www.reddit.com/r/Lindemann/comments/f8ao8w/more_on_the_till_the_end_disaster_calls_for/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Lindemann/comments/f8ao8w/more_on_t... Families and friends recieve threats, members of the public get dragged in: After identifying the girls, families and friends of the girls also began to recieve threats. Home addresses of the girls were also posted online. Also, girls which had simply had selfies taken with Till Lindemann while he was travelling through the city of St Petersburg at the time of the shooting (but who had not featured in Till The End nor Platz Eins) began to recieve hate mail and threats online after being identified through their selfie photos with him on Instagram. Porn actresses are often deanonymized and threatened death and you offer paperwork.
  - ocdtrekkie 7y ago

by adontz 7y ago

ocdtrekkie 7y ago

Why should AI be employed? Why is fully-automated superhuman scale something companies should be allowed to achieve? I mean, let's be real: How many new pornographic video uploads per day does PornHub actually need to serve it's audience? And the vast majority of content on PornHub likely falls into two categories: Major brand videos, in which they can work directly with the legal entities responsible for them, and user uploads of primarily copyright-infringing content. The former can be streamlined by connecting directly with brands, making sure they have all their legal ducks in order and that all of their performers are properly employed. For the latter, a slower, non-automated approval process is probably perfectly fine. Individual/amateur users who want to publish their own content could enter into a business relationship with the site, to achieve a pipeline closer to the first group, establishing a channel/brand that identifies the performers in the video and verifies their consent. Fetish/BDSM content is arguably pretty important to the platform (and sex positivity in general), but again, my guess is a large portion comes from established adult film brands. If PornHub works directly with the actual people filming the video, verifies performer age eligibility and consent, and then approves the videos, there is no problem with the content of the video shown itself. Unchecked open upload of whatever content a user has on their computer has no real need to exist here. At the very least, every video should be associated with the performers present in the video, and upon the revocation of consent from that performer, all of the videos containing them could be removed and prevented from being added again. This not only prevents abuse of non-consensual performers, but ensures the revenue generated from a video actually makes it back to consenting performers, as piracy is no longer possible using the platform.

adontz 7y ago
>> How many new pornographic video uploads per day does PornHub actually need to serve it's audience? As much as possible? It was 13 videos per minute in 2019. Each minute almost three hours of content are uploaded. >> And the vast majority of content on PornHub likely falls into two categories: Major brand videos, in which they can work directly with the legal entities responsible for them This assumption is very natural, but days of professional studios are gone. There are about 100 thousands amateur models registered on PornHub. >> For the latter, a slower, non-automated approval process is probably perfectly fine. Even if we'll estimate that just half of content is amateur, which is not so, PornHub would need at least 100 moderators working simultaneously at each moment of time to review every moment of all uploaded videos. I don't think anyone can view porn for 8 hours per day, so it's at least 4 shifts. Take into account vacations, and other things, that is easily 500-1000 of trained moderators who will know specific of genres, and will not punish fetish performers. And they'll need offices, computers, help of psychologists, security check because they can be source of major leak. I think we are talking about tens of millions dollars now. >> my guess is a large portion comes from established adult film brands There are big BDSM brands like Kink, but if you sum up minutes of content, it's mostly amateurs. >> If PornHub works directly with the actual people filming the video, verifies performer age eligibility and consent, and then approves the videos, there is no problem with the content of the video shown itself. So PornHub now has to perform full KYC, because US citizen would not know what Hungarian driver ID looks like. This is not a cheap service at all. And also PornHub now has verify that videos posted contain only verified identified models, which I have no idea how to perform. Also, now you enforce PornHub to keep a lot of Personally identifiable information about all performers which does not sound like a good idea in the first place. >> Unchecked open upload of whatever content a user has on their computer has no real need to exist here. At the very least, every video should be associated with the performers present in the video, and upon the revocation of consent from that performer, all of the videos containing them could be removed and prevented from being added again. You will just punish PornHub for being big, there is no way to enforce right to be forgotten across entire Internet.
- ocdtrekkie 7y ago
  > As much as possible? Why? A given viewer is going to watch how many minutes of content a day? Even accepting for a wide spectrum of preferences, there's no reason PornHub needs three hours of new content a minute. Nobody's "already watched everything on PornHub", have they? If they can't manage it ethically, they shouldn't be allowed to. > I think we are talking about tens of millions dollars now. Good thing PornHub's reported 2015 revenue was nearly half a billion. They can afford to operate ethically. > So PornHub now has to perform full KYC Not really know-your-customer. In this case it's know-your-content-provider. I certainly don't suggest every viewer of porn needs to register. But every publisher of it, including amateur channels, should. > This is not a cheap service at all. Again, this company operates on a half billion dollar a year scale. They can afford to hire someone who can verify what a Hungarian driver's license looks like. They aren't poor.

cdumler 7y ago

> I am in no way defending PornHub, but how exactly should it be [self] moderated? Bad question. Moderation isn't a solution. It's in direct conflict with its bottom line. As with anything that has serious consequences it should be regulated so that ethical considerations are followed. Porn produced should have a trail of paperwork tracking and identifying the production to individuals. Failure to have proper paperwork results people (content creator and/or distributors) being fined and going to jail. It's completely possible to produce amateur, fantasy, BSDM, MILF looking material with consenting individuals. The problem is that sexual videos can be distributed easily and without regard (often without knowledge) of the people involved such that the work is spread long before the affected individuals can know what has been done to them. Simply put, unregulated material should be considered illegal.

adontz 7y ago
Paperwork is not a solution at all. Porn performers must have right for anonymity because it's not safe to be porn actress/actor. Old U.S. story https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorelei_Lee_(actress) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorelei_Lee_(actress) Citing concerns of personal safety, Lee requested to testify under her stage name; the prosecution objected, arguing that allowing her to do so "gives some air of legitimacy to the porn star" (which Lee later called "incredibly insulting") and that "she shouldn't be treated any differently than anyone else in this case".[35] The case was ultimately dismissed on July 16, 2010,[36] before Lee was scheduled to testify. New Russian story https://www.reddit.com/r/Lindemann/comments/f8ao8w/more_on_the_till_the_end_disaster_calls_for/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Lindemann/comments/f8ao8w/more_on_t... Families and friends recieve threats, members of the public get dragged in: After identifying the girls, families and friends of the girls also began to recieve threats. Home addresses of the girls were also posted online. Also, girls which had simply had selfies taken with Till Lindemann while he was travelling through the city of St Petersburg at the time of the shooting (but who had not featured in Till The End nor Platz Eins) began to recieve hate mail and threats online after being identified through their selfie photos with him on Instagram. Porn actresses are often deanonymized and threatened death and you offer paperwork.
- ocdtrekkie 7y ago