6 ms·

A petition is calling on Pornhub to prevent non-consensual videos being posted

40 points by jimnotgym 7y ago

gaogao 7y ago
Pornohub -> Pornhub in title
- dang 7y ago
  Fixed.
- unfunco 7y ago
  Is it not a clever Grauniad joke?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
ocdtrekkie 7y ago
This falls in the exact same vein as Google and Facebook and the inherent issues with Section 230: Platform immunity very directly enables and promotes illegal content, because platforms lack an incentive to moderate them effectively. Article is from the UK perspective, but this is arguably, an easy example of where the United States could utilize the new SESTA-FOSTA and take down Pornhub, since Section 230's immunity no longer applies to sexual exploitation of children or sex trafficking. And multiple examples here are given of videos of underage persons without their consent. In addition to this, the recent case against Girls Do Porn, PornHub has allegedly done an extremely inadequate job preventing reuploads of videos that constituted rape and abuse, and for which the creators are in jail.
- adontz 7y ago
  I am in no way defending PornHub, but how exactly should it be [self] moderated? Can we use AI to detect underage and drunk people? PornHub already uses some computer vision technology to recognize kind of sex taking place and put time-codes on video. What are limitations of this technology? Can CV detect drunk person and not confuse facial expressions with an orgasm? We have seen epic failures of fully automated AI in our industry, like YouTube taking down videos with birds signing for DCMA copyright violations. Also, consent and legal age are defined very differently across the world and even within US. Which jurisdiction to refer to and why? Video can be legal for one web site visitor and illegal for another one at the same time. What to do in that case? Can we have some kind of feedback form to report video as... what exactly? Private? Leaked? Amateur videos are very common. Independent models make a living from posting videos. Any feedback system will be abused by competing content providers, which are private persons mostly, not legal entities. So reporting party should take selfie for identification or what exactly? What about all hard core BDSM content, when modeling non consensual sex is the very goal. Are we gonna ban BDSM? What about all fetishes, which may include underage sex fetish, rape play, etc. which when performed by adults is legal. Will computer vision recognize these exceptions? Will people do? Should we make people make final decisions? YouTube moderators deal with mental issues. Honestly, I have no idea what kind of terrible job should be moderating porn videos. I understand that PornHub makes money, violates privacy and should be regulated, but without sane solution we'll just punish everyone without really solving the problem. New keywords will be coined to search for specific content, that's it. We already have lots of them, like MILF, ATM, DP. We'll get just DT for drunk teen, that's it. And when it'll get banned (for instance "rape" is a banned word on PornHub), another keyword will be coined.
  - ocdtrekkie 7y ago
    Why should AI be employed? Why is fully-automated superhuman scale something companies should be allowed to achieve? I mean, let's be real: How many new pornographic video uploads per day does PornHub actually need to serve it's audience? And the vast majority of content on PornHub likely falls into two categories: Major brand videos, in which they can work directly with the legal entities responsible for them, and user uploads of primarily copyright-infringing content. The former can be streamlined by connecting directly with brands, making sure they have all their legal ducks in order and that all of their performers are properly employed. For the latter, a slower, non-automated approval process is probably perfectly fine. Individual/amateur users who want to publish their own content could enter into a business relationship with the site, to achieve a pipeline closer to the first group, establishing a channel/brand that identifies the performers in the video and verifies their consent. Fetish/BDSM content is arguably pretty important to the platform (and sex positivity in general), but again, my guess is a large portion comes from established adult film brands. If PornHub works directly with the actual people filming the video, verifies performer age eligibility and consent, and then approves the videos, there is no problem with the content of the video shown itself. Unchecked open upload of whatever content a user has on their computer has no real need to exist here. At the very least, every video should be associated with the performers present in the video, and upon the revocation of consent from that performer, all of the videos containing them could be removed and prevented from being added again. This not only prevents abuse of non-consensual performers, but ensures the revenue generated from a video actually makes it back to consenting performers, as piracy is no longer possible using the platform.
magduf 7y ago
This seems like a very good example of how poor enforcement is. Child porn is very, very illegal, and gets "regular people" throw in prison for the rest of their lives just for having downloaded it and having it on their machines. Yet a big site like this can have it posted, and reposted, over and over, and that's perfectly OK. Why is there no federal prosecution of not only the site for abetting, but also tracking down these ex-bfs or whoever it is uploading the videos? Usually, producing and knowingly distributing CP results in a very, very long prison sentence in the US.
- ocdtrekkie 7y ago
  One of the largest issues is jurisdictional issues. These internet sites are global, but most law enforcement have fairly restrained jurisdictions. A victim may go to their local police, but the local police then have to interact with agencies potentially all over the globe to actually build a case, make an arrest, etc. Which isn't to say they don't try, but it can be very difficult and take a very long time. Even if you can track down someone's ex-boyfriend (likely to be more local) and charge them, once the video is out on the Internet, random people all over the globe can continue to share and distribute it. And large scale video platforms have little desire to put meaningful controls on uploading videos as it would negatively impact their ad revenue. Furthermore, these platforms can claim that they didn't upload it, a user did, so they shouldn't be held responsible.
  - magduf 7y ago
    I don't think this applies here; from the story, it sounds like both Pornhub and the victims are in the US, and Pornhub is bound by US law on these matters (which is decidedly unfriendly to CP). >Furthermore, these platforms can claim that they didn't upload it, a user did, so they shouldn't be held responsible. Not true. They're required to take down stuff when notified it's illegal, and CP is very illegal. So taking 2 weeks to remove something this blatantly illegal sure looks a lot like criminal negligence. For comparison, how does YouTube handle this kind of thing? I'm pretty sure CP videos would never stay on YT for more than a day at the very most. And Pornhub can't claim to not have the generous resources Google has; Pornhub is a gigantic website. I wouldn't be too surprised to see some zealous federal prosecutor nail them for this stuff, especially with a GOP presidential administration.
Red-Ted 7y ago
For a site which built its business on piracy this is no surprise!
IAmEveryone 7y ago
Is it actually a criminal offense in the US to distribute “rape porn” or “revenge porn”? I seem to remember it’s only a civil matter. That makes all the difference here, because Section 230 is specifically limited to have no impact on federal criminal law. That would also explain why child pornography is extremely rare on these sites.
- toyg 7y ago
  In legal terms, unauthorised revenge-porn is one thing, underage porn is quite another - that’s sexual exploitation of minors, not a civil case.
justsomedude11 7y ago
I'm so happy this made the news. I signed it and I wrote to my local representative about the petition too. I'm a 35y old guy and I was never anti-porn, I was always pro-porn. However, few weeks ago I read an article on BBC (it was posted on HN I think) about a 14y old girl being gang raped, rapists pardoned and the rape video uploaded to Pornhub. Pornhub refused to remove the video at first, they later did when the girl wrote a letter pretending to be a lawyer. Imagine having to go through all that and still be mentally strong enough to deal with your peers mocking you and millions of strangers masturbating to the torture you went through. Imagine being the parent. Reading that article changed how I view porn. It also changed my life in a way. God knows how many videos that end up on Pornhub (and the likes) are rape or pedophilia and we don't even know it. I haven't browsed since and probably won't watch porn ever again. These corporations need to be held responsible. If we can do it in retail and tech, then so can we regular porn industry a bit.

40 points by jimnotgym 7y ago

gaogao 7y ago

Pornohub -> Pornhub in title

dang 7y ago
Fixed.
unfunco 7y ago
Is it not a clever Grauniad joke?
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

ocdtrekkie 7y ago

This falls in the exact same vein as Google and Facebook and the inherent issues with Section 230: Platform immunity very directly enables and promotes illegal content, because platforms lack an incentive to moderate them effectively. Article is from the UK perspective, but this is arguably, an easy example of where the United States could utilize the new SESTA-FOSTA and take down Pornhub, since Section 230's immunity no longer applies to sexual exploitation of children or sex trafficking. And multiple examples here are given of videos of underage persons without their consent. In addition to this, the recent case against Girls Do Porn, PornHub has allegedly done an extremely inadequate job preventing reuploads of videos that constituted rape and abuse, and for which the creators are in jail.

adontz 7y ago
I am in no way defending PornHub, but how exactly should it be [self] moderated? Can we use AI to detect underage and drunk people? PornHub already uses some computer vision technology to recognize kind of sex taking place and put time-codes on video. What are limitations of this technology? Can CV detect drunk person and not confuse facial expressions with an orgasm? We have seen epic failures of fully automated AI in our industry, like YouTube taking down videos with birds signing for DCMA copyright violations. Also, consent and legal age are defined very differently across the world and even within US. Which jurisdiction to refer to and why? Video can be legal for one web site visitor and illegal for another one at the same time. What to do in that case? Can we have some kind of feedback form to report video as... what exactly? Private? Leaked? Amateur videos are very common. Independent models make a living from posting videos. Any feedback system will be abused by competing content providers, which are private persons mostly, not legal entities. So reporting party should take selfie for identification or what exactly? What about all hard core BDSM content, when modeling non consensual sex is the very goal. Are we gonna ban BDSM? What about all fetishes, which may include underage sex fetish, rape play, etc. which when performed by adults is legal. Will computer vision recognize these exceptions? Will people do? Should we make people make final decisions? YouTube moderators deal with mental issues. Honestly, I have no idea what kind of terrible job should be moderating porn videos. I understand that PornHub makes money, violates privacy and should be regulated, but without sane solution we'll just punish everyone without really solving the problem. New keywords will be coined to search for specific content, that's it. We already have lots of them, like MILF, ATM, DP. We'll get just DT for drunk teen, that's it. And when it'll get banned (for instance "rape" is a banned word on PornHub), another keyword will be coined.
- ocdtrekkie 7y ago
  Why should AI be employed? Why is fully-automated superhuman scale something companies should be allowed to achieve? I mean, let's be real: How many new pornographic video uploads per day does PornHub actually need to serve it's audience? And the vast majority of content on PornHub likely falls into two categories: Major brand videos, in which they can work directly with the legal entities responsible for them, and user uploads of primarily copyright-infringing content. The former can be streamlined by connecting directly with brands, making sure they have all their legal ducks in order and that all of their performers are properly employed. For the latter, a slower, non-automated approval process is probably perfectly fine. Individual/amateur users who want to publish their own content could enter into a business relationship with the site, to achieve a pipeline closer to the first group, establishing a channel/brand that identifies the performers in the video and verifies their consent. Fetish/BDSM content is arguably pretty important to the platform (and sex positivity in general), but again, my guess is a large portion comes from established adult film brands. If PornHub works directly with the actual people filming the video, verifies performer age eligibility and consent, and then approves the videos, there is no problem with the content of the video shown itself. Unchecked open upload of whatever content a user has on their computer has no real need to exist here. At the very least, every video should be associated with the performers present in the video, and upon the revocation of consent from that performer, all of the videos containing them could be removed and prevented from being added again. This not only prevents abuse of non-consensual performers, but ensures the revenue generated from a video actually makes it back to consenting performers, as piracy is no longer possible using the platform.

magduf 7y ago

This seems like a very good example of how poor enforcement is. Child porn is very, very illegal, and gets "regular people" throw in prison for the rest of their lives just for having downloaded it and having it on their machines. Yet a big site like this can have it posted, and reposted, over and over, and that's perfectly OK. Why is there no federal prosecution of not only the site for abetting, but also tracking down these ex-bfs or whoever it is uploading the videos? Usually, producing and knowingly distributing CP results in a very, very long prison sentence in the US.

ocdtrekkie 7y ago
One of the largest issues is jurisdictional issues. These internet sites are global, but most law enforcement have fairly restrained jurisdictions. A victim may go to their local police, but the local police then have to interact with agencies potentially all over the globe to actually build a case, make an arrest, etc. Which isn't to say they don't try, but it can be very difficult and take a very long time. Even if you can track down someone's ex-boyfriend (likely to be more local) and charge them, once the video is out on the Internet, random people all over the globe can continue to share and distribute it. And large scale video platforms have little desire to put meaningful controls on uploading videos as it would negatively impact their ad revenue. Furthermore, these platforms can claim that they didn't upload it, a user did, so they shouldn't be held responsible.
- magduf 7y ago
  I don't think this applies here; from the story, it sounds like both Pornhub and the victims are in the US, and Pornhub is bound by US law on these matters (which is decidedly unfriendly to CP). >Furthermore, these platforms can claim that they didn't upload it, a user did, so they shouldn't be held responsible. Not true. They're required to take down stuff when notified it's illegal, and CP is very illegal. So taking 2 weeks to remove something this blatantly illegal sure looks a lot like criminal negligence. For comparison, how does YouTube handle this kind of thing? I'm pretty sure CP videos would never stay on YT for more than a day at the very most. And Pornhub can't claim to not have the generous resources Google has; Pornhub is a gigantic website. I wouldn't be too surprised to see some zealous federal prosecutor nail them for this stuff, especially with a GOP presidential administration.

Red-Ted 7y ago

For a site which built its business on piracy this is no surprise!

IAmEveryone 7y ago

Is it actually a criminal offense in the US to distribute “rape porn” or “revenge porn”? I seem to remember it’s only a civil matter. That makes all the difference here, because Section 230 is specifically limited to have no impact on federal criminal law. That would also explain why child pornography is extremely rare on these sites.

toyg 7y ago
In legal terms, unauthorised revenge-porn is one thing, underage porn is quite another - that’s sexual exploitation of minors, not a civil case.

justsomedude11 7y ago

I'm so happy this made the news. I signed it and I wrote to my local representative about the petition too. I'm a 35y old guy and I was never anti-porn, I was always pro-porn. However, few weeks ago I read an article on BBC (it was posted on HN I think) about a 14y old girl being gang raped, rapists pardoned and the rape video uploaded to Pornhub. Pornhub refused to remove the video at first, they later did when the girl wrote a letter pretending to be a lawyer. Imagine having to go through all that and still be mentally strong enough to deal with your peers mocking you and millions of strangers masturbating to the torture you went through. Imagine being the parent. Reading that article changed how I view porn. It also changed my life in a way. God knows how many videos that end up on Pornhub (and the likes) are rape or pedophilia and we don't even know it. I haven't browsed since and probably won't watch porn ever again. These corporations need to be held responsible. If we can do it in retail and tech, then so can we regular porn industry a bit.