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> Why do I need to [approach this with an open mind]? Because those are the standard terms of intellectual discussion. People going into such a conversation wi
by geocar 7y ago
> Why do I need to [approach this with an open mind]?
Because those are the standard terms of intellectual discussion. People going into such a conversation without an open mind are called idiots, and they're not worth taking too seriously.
> I need to think about costs and benefits, about longevity and sustainability
Isn't it weird that people don't value that?
I mean, look at how many python programmers are out there! I have programs written just five years old that don't work in a new python interpreter and that's terrible for "longevity and sustainability". Good thing there are so many cheap Python programmers so we can keep the costs down: We're going to be rewriting this thing until we're old and gray!
I personally find this line of thinking quite unproductive though.
> I know people who teach themselves Esperanto and Klingon, and they seem to have a good time.
Hey that's great. I know a few Go programmers too. Loads of fun those chaps.
If only Esperanto or Klingon or Go were useful in some way....
- wpietri 7y agoYou omitted a key piece of what I said. If you'd like to answer the question I actually asked, feel free. Bonus points if you demonstrate the values you claim to champion here, like open-mindedness and eagerness for sincere discussion.
- kick 7y agoHow did he not answer the question? You asked why you should keep an open mind when encountering and talking about a strange language. He pointed out that it's necessary for a good discussion on it. He's not wrong. You've dismissed every point he made while not knowing a single thing about the topic at hand. That's not grounds for a proper discussion.
- wpietri 7y agoThat is not what I asked. What I'm responding to in the thread is a question of pragmatism. In particular, I'm taking issue with the notion that one can only approach this "forgetting what you already know from other languages". That's very much distinct from the notion of an open mind. And it's especially distinct when we're talking about tools that must fit into a professional context that involves decades of history, millions of people, and a complicated set of economic factors. For example, Imagine that you were working in a machine shop and I came to you excited about a new screw-head. If you dismissed it out of hand, I might ask you to keep an open mind while I explained why I thought it was better. But if my explanation ignored that the Phillips head was the dominant choice, with billions of drivers and hundreds of billions or perhaps trillions of screws in existence, that would be another thing entirely. The same logic applies to conlangs like Esperanto and Klingon. Is it possible it would be better if we switched the whole world to Klingon? Sure. Might I learn interesting concepts if I studied Klingon? It's possible. Should Klingon be considered for a moment as an important thing for most people to learn? No, not at all. It's utterly impractical. So yes, keeping an open mind is valuable. But that's not something I've ever heard seriously disputed, so editing me down to saying that is constructing a straw man. Which also isn't grounds for a proper discussion.
- threatofrain 7y agoI read the sum of wpietri's question as saying "so sell K then". As a reader I then looked on to what might be a better selling of K than all the comments I've read so far. Instead I found silly prose examination.
- AnimalMuppet 7y agoIf you think Go is less useful than K, you might need to get out more. At least, it is actually used more than K is.