7 ms·

OpenSilver – a plugin-free, open-source reimplementation of Silverlight

163 points by jakobdabo 7y ago

skrowl 7y ago
If I recall correctly, not being able to do a plugin free version of Silverlight is one of the reasons Microsoft invented Blazor ( https://dotnet.microsoft.com/apps/aspnet/web-apps/blazor https://dotnet.microsoft.com/apps/aspnet/web-apps/blazor ). The devs listed it as one of their reasons for "why?" in a community chat.
- brian_herman__ 7y ago
  Yeah blazor seems to be a re implementation of the same ideas with webassembly and a newer version of .net. I have a feeling it will have the same security holes eventually.
  - Moto7451 7y ago
    Since it runs in the Browser JS sandbox there will be a lower security footprint than the NPAPI Silverlight plugin. JS libraries can certainly still cause other web security issues but you shouldn’t be able to escape the browser just because you’re running this library. https://developer.chrome.com/apps/npapi https://developer.chrome.com/apps/npapi
    - brian_herman__ 7y ago
      Oh thats reassuring I just thought since its similar to native code my bad
- jjkaczor 7y ago
  Apparently OpenSilver uses Blazor (https://www.opensilver.net/announcements/introducing-opensilver.aspx https://www.opensilver.net/announcements/introducing-opensil...)
- Ciantic 7y ago
  Blazor, while a good effort, is still an experiment. Microsoft Office etc. are React apps, and has one of the most maintained React libraries: https://github.com/OfficeDev/office-ui-fabric-react/ https://github.com/OfficeDev/office-ui-fabric-react/ I will believe the Blazor effort if they start rewriting Fabric UI components with Blazor.
  - luxuryballs 7y ago
    When I see how absurdly complicated these front-end JS frameworks are it makes me really hope that Blazor can deliver. But for some reason it also feels similar to times in the past where a word for promising tech was never more than a word. But please work, I don’t need or want two routing implementations and an entire MVC stack to manage on the damn client...
    - JamesBarney 7y ago
      I've now done two small client projects in blazor(server side) and it's amazing for small to medium sized cruddy apps with a small user base. I On the fist project I was able to build out small apps almost twice as fast as react. And this was with 1 day of previous blazor experience before the first project.
  - oaiey 7y ago
    Officially it is no longer an experiment. Otherwise I agree. Blazor will never be what they imagine it will be. And why should the office team migrate to another tech stack. That is wasted money.
  - pjmlp 7y ago
    Office is React, because of C++. Office and WinDev teams are the main reason why Longhorn failed, their collaboration with DevDiv wasn't particularly stellar. They were pretty happy to redo Longhorn ideas using COM instead, then rejuvenating it into what is now UWP, naturally creating an incompatible .NET stack in the process, which might finally be done with when .NET 5 gets released. Also Office team is so deep into C++ they even maintain their own VC++ branch. You won't see those guys touching anything .NET beyond the absolutely necessary.
thrownaway954 7y ago
WOW!!! although i despised silverlight, this is some accomplishment you guys have done. very impressive.
- LadyCailin 7y ago
  What is your complaint about silver light? From a user perspective, the only issue I had with it was that you had to install yet another software plugin. But if it’s invisible to end users, I don’t see an issue. Though maybe you developed in it?
  - tracker1 7y ago
    Trust was my biggest objection to it... There was no reasonable/complete Linux implementation available, and at that point Microsoft had never supported a technology (other than office) outside of Windows for more than 2 releases that I could recall. In general, I really liked the package model, it's close to what I'd hoped Flash would become after Adobe acquisition. I do like React a bit better than Silverlight, but the tech and usability wasn't really bad, just more of a risk aversion for myself. If MS had created an open-source client implementation that was patent unencumbered that other browsers could have integrated, with open tooling, I think it would have gone better. Can't speak to this implementation. For the Blazor efforts, payload size just feels excessively huge to me, and server-side renders feel as laggy as the original ASP.Net lifecycle round trip. I'd probably be more inclined to work towards tooling for other languages that have a lighter wasm target (Rust in particular) and either web canvas or something like yew. All of that said, I'm pretty happy with React these days.
  - sjwright 7y ago
    If the web kept going down that path, we’d end up with a dozen equivalents of Flash and Silverlight, dooming the web to become a closed hellscape.
    - pjmlp 7y ago
      Pandora box is already open, the only way back is to remove WebAssembly from the browsers. https://www.qt.io/qt-examples-for-webassembly https://www.qt.io/qt-examples-for-webassembly https://platform.uno/showcases/ https://platform.uno/showcases/ https://www.leaningtech.com/pages/cheerpj.html https://www.leaningtech.com/pages/cheerpj.html
rootlocus 7y ago
> OpenSilver is maintained by Userware and is not affiliated with Microsoft. Click download > Please sign with your Microsoft account: What gives?
- duiker101 7y ago
  Azure SSO? https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/active-directory/manage-apps/what-is-single-sign-on https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/active-directory/mana...
- weare138 7y ago
  It looks like it's a plugin for Visual Studio and from what I can tell Visual Studio requires a Microsoft account. There's a link to their Github repository and it has the project files for compiling OpenSilver in VS. I think the Microsoft account in required for installing plugins hosted by MS. https://github.com/cshtml5/CSHTML5 https://github.com/cshtml5/CSHTML5
lidHanteyk 7y ago
Some source code is available here: https://github.com/cshtml5/CSHTML5 https://github.com/cshtml5/CSHTML5
jagged-chisel 7y ago
OpenSilver looks like a fun effort. I wonder, though, if it's commercially viable (just out of curiosity.) Wikipedia [1] says: > In July of 2015 a Microsoft blog post finally clarified matters: "...we encourage companies that are using Silverlight for media to begin the transition to DASH/MSE/CENC/EME based designs". Microsoft plans to terminate Silverlight support on October 12, 2021. How widespread is adoption of Silverlight? Could OpenSilver become someone's bread & butter by 12 Oct 2021? 1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Silverlight https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Silverlight
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- dna_polymerase 7y ago
  Wow, six years notice. If Silverlight was a Google product they had removed that from Chrome within two weeks. That said, I don't think anyone would start a project using Silverlight these days.
- app4soft 7y ago
  > How widespread is adoption of Silverlight? From Wikipedia: > As of 2015, Silverlight was not available on Android or iOS, the most prevalent operating systems on the mobile market. Fun fact: in 2008 it was announced that Silverlight would be available for Nokia's Series40 phones and Series60 (SymbianOS) smartphones.[0] In 2010 (ten years ago from now!) it finally released for Symbian 9.x.[1,2] [0] https://web.archive.org/web/20130615150307/http://blog.anta.net/2008/03/04/nokia-to-enable-silverlight/ https://web.archive.org/web/20130615150307/http://blog.anta.... [1] http://on10.net/blogs/sarahintampa/Silverlight-for-Symbian-Plugin-Now-Available/ http://on10.net/blogs/sarahintampa/Silverlight-for-Symbian-P... [2] http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/item/11777_Silverlight_arrive_for_the_S60.php http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/item/11777_Silverlight_a...
claylevering 7y ago
Why would you do this to us?
- tasogare 7y ago
  Silverlight had a nice API. For someone with C# and XAML skills, it can be way easier and faster to work with than HTML5 et al.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
iRobbery 7y ago
ah i was hoping it was for osx too :) been reading my ISPs apology for not support safari now for 2 years i think... they only do silverlight streaming
- zamadatix 7y ago
  They likely do silverlight drm which wouldn't work in a 3rd party implementation.
briandilley 7y ago
... but why?
- UweSchmidt 7y ago
  under "contact" it says: For migrations-related inquiries (getting a quote, analyzing the compatibility of your code, discussing the technology, etc.), please write to: [...] If they can reliably migrate a decent number of vital corporate applications, then that's a business that can put some food on the table.
  - qntmfred 7y ago
    yup. I did a lot of WPF/Silverlight work 2008-2012 and I STILL get emails from recruiters (one this week even) asking if I want a job doing that kind of work.
s_y_n_t_a_x 7y ago
Wow, never thought I'd see Silverlight pop back into the mix. edit: I actually have no problem with it since it's opensource. Really cool project, great job!
- songshuu 7y ago
  Ditto. My first reaction was a nearly audible 'ew'
rpj92 7y ago
Im really excited about this.

163 points by jakobdabo 7y ago

If I recall correctly, not being able to do a plugin free version of Silverlight is one of the reasons Microsoft invented Blazor ( https://dotnet.microsoft.com/apps/aspnet/web-apps/blazor https://dotnet.microsoft.com/apps/aspnet/web-apps/blazor ). The devs listed it as one of their reasons for "why?" in a community chat.

brian_herman__ 7y ago
Yeah blazor seems to be a re implementation of the same ideas with webassembly and a newer version of .net. I have a feeling it will have the same security holes eventually.
- Moto7451 7y ago
  Since it runs in the Browser JS sandbox there will be a lower security footprint than the NPAPI Silverlight plugin. JS libraries can certainly still cause other web security issues but you shouldn’t be able to escape the browser just because you’re running this library. https://developer.chrome.com/apps/npapi https://developer.chrome.com/apps/npapi
  - brian_herman__ 7y ago
    Oh thats reassuring I just thought since its similar to native code my bad
jjkaczor 7y ago
Apparently OpenSilver uses Blazor (https://www.opensilver.net/announcements/introducing-opensilver.aspx https://www.opensilver.net/announcements/introducing-opensil...)
Ciantic 7y ago
Blazor, while a good effort, is still an experiment. Microsoft Office etc. are React apps, and has one of the most maintained React libraries: https://github.com/OfficeDev/office-ui-fabric-react/ https://github.com/OfficeDev/office-ui-fabric-react/ I will believe the Blazor effort if they start rewriting Fabric UI components with Blazor.
- luxuryballs 7y ago
  When I see how absurdly complicated these front-end JS frameworks are it makes me really hope that Blazor can deliver. But for some reason it also feels similar to times in the past where a word for promising tech was never more than a word. But please work, I don’t need or want two routing implementations and an entire MVC stack to manage on the damn client...
  - JamesBarney 7y ago
    I've now done two small client projects in blazor(server side) and it's amazing for small to medium sized cruddy apps with a small user base. I On the fist project I was able to build out small apps almost twice as fast as react. And this was with 1 day of previous blazor experience before the first project.
- oaiey 7y ago
  Officially it is no longer an experiment. Otherwise I agree. Blazor will never be what they imagine it will be. And why should the office team migrate to another tech stack. That is wasted money.
- pjmlp 7y ago
  Office is React, because of C++. Office and WinDev teams are the main reason why Longhorn failed, their collaboration with DevDiv wasn't particularly stellar. They were pretty happy to redo Longhorn ideas using COM instead, then rejuvenating it into what is now UWP, naturally creating an incompatible .NET stack in the process, which might finally be done with when .NET 5 gets released. Also Office team is so deep into C++ they even maintain their own VC++ branch. You won't see those guys touching anything .NET beyond the absolutely necessary.

thrownaway954 7y ago

WOW!!! although i despised silverlight, this is some accomplishment you guys have done. very impressive.

LadyCailin 7y ago
What is your complaint about silver light? From a user perspective, the only issue I had with it was that you had to install yet another software plugin. But if it’s invisible to end users, I don’t see an issue. Though maybe you developed in it?
- tracker1 7y ago
  Trust was my biggest objection to it... There was no reasonable/complete Linux implementation available, and at that point Microsoft had never supported a technology (other than office) outside of Windows for more than 2 releases that I could recall. In general, I really liked the package model, it's close to what I'd hoped Flash would become after Adobe acquisition. I do like React a bit better than Silverlight, but the tech and usability wasn't really bad, just more of a risk aversion for myself. If MS had created an open-source client implementation that was patent unencumbered that other browsers could have integrated, with open tooling, I think it would have gone better. Can't speak to this implementation. For the Blazor efforts, payload size just feels excessively huge to me, and server-side renders feel as laggy as the original ASP.Net lifecycle round trip. I'd probably be more inclined to work towards tooling for other languages that have a lighter wasm target (Rust in particular) and either web canvas or something like yew. All of that said, I'm pretty happy with React these days.
- sjwright 7y ago
  If the web kept going down that path, we’d end up with a dozen equivalents of Flash and Silverlight, dooming the web to become a closed hellscape.
  - pjmlp 7y ago
    Pandora box is already open, the only way back is to remove WebAssembly from the browsers. https://www.qt.io/qt-examples-for-webassembly https://www.qt.io/qt-examples-for-webassembly https://platform.uno/showcases/ https://platform.uno/showcases/ https://www.leaningtech.com/pages/cheerpj.html https://www.leaningtech.com/pages/cheerpj.html

rootlocus 7y ago

> OpenSilver is maintained by Userware and is not affiliated with Microsoft. Click download > Please sign with your Microsoft account: What gives?

duiker101 7y ago
Azure SSO? https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/active-directory/manage-apps/what-is-single-sign-on https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/azure/active-directory/mana...
weare138 7y ago
It looks like it's a plugin for Visual Studio and from what I can tell Visual Studio requires a Microsoft account. There's a link to their Github repository and it has the project files for compiling OpenSilver in VS. I think the Microsoft account in required for installing plugins hosted by MS. https://github.com/cshtml5/CSHTML5 https://github.com/cshtml5/CSHTML5

lidHanteyk 7y ago

Some source code is available here: https://github.com/cshtml5/CSHTML5 https://github.com/cshtml5/CSHTML5

jagged-chisel 7y ago

OpenSilver looks like a fun effort. I wonder, though, if it's commercially viable (just out of curiosity.) Wikipedia [1] says: > In July of 2015 a Microsoft blog post finally clarified matters: "...we encourage companies that are using Silverlight for media to begin the transition to DASH/MSE/CENC/EME based designs". Microsoft plans to terminate Silverlight support on October 12, 2021. How widespread is adoption of Silverlight? Could OpenSilver become someone's bread & butter by 12 Oct 2021? 1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Silverlight https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Silverlight

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
dna_polymerase 7y ago
Wow, six years notice. If Silverlight was a Google product they had removed that from Chrome within two weeks. That said, I don't think anyone would start a project using Silverlight these days.
app4soft 7y ago
> How widespread is adoption of Silverlight? From Wikipedia: > As of 2015, Silverlight was not available on Android or iOS, the most prevalent operating systems on the mobile market. Fun fact: in 2008 it was announced that Silverlight would be available for Nokia's Series40 phones and Series60 (SymbianOS) smartphones.[0] In 2010 (ten years ago from now!) it finally released for Symbian 9.x.[1,2] [0] https://web.archive.org/web/20130615150307/http://blog.anta.net/2008/03/04/nokia-to-enable-silverlight/ https://web.archive.org/web/20130615150307/http://blog.anta.... [1] http://on10.net/blogs/sarahintampa/Silverlight-for-Symbian-Plugin-Now-Available/ http://on10.net/blogs/sarahintampa/Silverlight-for-Symbian-P... [2] http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/item/11777_Silverlight_arrive_for_the_S60.php http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/item/11777_Silverlight_a...

claylevering 7y ago

Why would you do this to us?

tasogare 7y ago
Silverlight had a nice API. For someone with C# and XAML skills, it can be way easier and faster to work with than HTML5 et al.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]

iRobbery 7y ago

ah i was hoping it was for osx too :) been reading my ISPs apology for not support safari now for 2 years i think... they only do silverlight streaming

zamadatix 7y ago
They likely do silverlight drm which wouldn't work in a 3rd party implementation.

briandilley 7y ago

... but why?

UweSchmidt 7y ago
under "contact" it says: For migrations-related inquiries (getting a quote, analyzing the compatibility of your code, discussing the technology, etc.), please write to: [...] If they can reliably migrate a decent number of vital corporate applications, then that's a business that can put some food on the table.
- qntmfred 7y ago
  yup. I did a lot of WPF/Silverlight work 2008-2012 and I STILL get emails from recruiters (one this week even) asking if I want a job doing that kind of work.

s_y_n_t_a_x 7y ago

Wow, never thought I'd see Silverlight pop back into the mix. edit: I actually have no problem with it since it's opensource. Really cool project, great job!

songshuu 7y ago
Ditto. My first reaction was a nearly audible 'ew'

rpj92 7y ago

Im really excited about this.