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>This says nothing about the number of human users. It obviously does because people are using these libraries in their projects. As I noted, it's an indirect

>This says nothing about the number of human users. It obviously does because people are using these libraries in their projects. As I noted, it's an indirect measure, but it still gives an idea of the usage. And Open Collective was just announced last month, so not sure what point you were trying to make there. Wonder why you didn't mention anything about Clojurists Together, doesn't fit your narrative? https://www.clojuriststogether.org/members/ https://www.clojuriststogether.org/members/

lispm 7y ago
> It obviously does because people are using these libraries in their projects. Obviously it says nothing about the number. If we look at the number of downloads of the current version, it's ~40000. Now many systems may download it multiple times. So the number is not an indicator for a large user community. > Wonder why you didn't mention anything about Clojurists Together, doesn't fit your narrative? https://www.clojuriststogether.org/members/ https://www.clojuriststogether.org/members/ It 'fits my narrative' well. Just count the number of the members. Don't get me wrong, that's all fine and useful in a small community, but to claim a handful of companies and a few hundred people is an indicator of a mainstream popularity is just massive overselling and looks 'silly' (to quote you again, sorry).
- yogthos 7y ago
  If commercial usage of the language by companies big and small around the world along with funding of the ecosystem is not an indication of mainstream usage, then I guess we'll have to disagree on what constitutes mainstream.
  - lispm 7y ago
    Right, a few users don't make something mainstream. Big companies have thousands of developers - even non IT companies - that someone inside some big company uses a programming language doesn't make it an indicator for widespread (most people use something -> mainstream) usage. Mainstream: large relative and absolute numbers of users. For example the Porsche Taycan (-> Microsoft) is not a mainstream car, even though Bill Gates has one and Porsche is an incredible profitable company. https://www.economist.com/business/2019/09/12/porsche-is-small-but-highly-lucrative https://www.economist.com/business/2019/09/12/porsche-is-sma...
    - yogthos 7y ago
      well fair enough then

lispm 7y ago

> It obviously does because people are using these libraries in their projects. Obviously it says nothing about the number. If we look at the number of downloads of the current version, it's ~40000. Now many systems may download it multiple times. So the number is not an indicator for a large user community. > Wonder why you didn't mention anything about Clojurists Together, doesn't fit your narrative? https://www.clojuriststogether.org/members/ https://www.clojuriststogether.org/members/ It 'fits my narrative' well. Just count the number of the members. Don't get me wrong, that's all fine and useful in a small community, but to claim a handful of companies and a few hundred people is an indicator of a mainstream popularity is just massive overselling and looks 'silly' (to quote you again, sorry).

yogthos 7y ago
If commercial usage of the language by companies big and small around the world along with funding of the ecosystem is not an indication of mainstream usage, then I guess we'll have to disagree on what constitutes mainstream.
- lispm 7y ago
  Right, a few users don't make something mainstream. Big companies have thousands of developers - even non IT companies - that someone inside some big company uses a programming language doesn't make it an indicator for widespread (most people use something -> mainstream) usage. Mainstream: large relative and absolute numbers of users. For example the Porsche Taycan (-> Microsoft) is not a mainstream car, even though Bill Gates has one and Porsche is an incredible profitable company. https://www.economist.com/business/2019/09/12/porsche-is-small-but-highly-lucrative https://www.economist.com/business/2019/09/12/porsche-is-sma...
  - yogthos 7y ago
    well fair enough then