3 ms·

Not sure why you're harping so hard on the privacy front in regards to those statements. The quotes you've chosen (and the linked website) make no attempt to sa

Not sure why you're harping so hard on the privacy front in regards to those statements. The quotes you've chosen (and the linked website) make no attempt to say that they are privacy related at all. The purpose of mentioning that they don't need to download an app or create an account are about mentioning the level of effort that patrons have to go through to sign up (as compared to current Amazon Go stores that do require an app and account). If you want to talk about privacy, it's always a valid concern in this day and age, but your comment feels like you're building a strawman.

JohnFen 7y ago
> The quotes you've chosen (and the linked website) make no attempt to say that they are privacy related at all. I was pointing those out because of their obvious privacy implications, not because I thought that the article was presenting them as privacy-related. > your comment feels like you're building a strawman. How so? I was merely pointing out two of the several things the article said that got my spidey-senses tingling. I don't see how what I said is anything remotely like a strawman argument.
- txcwpalpha 7y ago
  In your original comment, the statement "But you may as well" misses the entire point of the quote from the article. You only "may as well" if the only point of that quote is privacy related, but it is not. The benefit of not providing an account or downloading an app is that it provides less friction for the shopper, so you shouldn't "may as well" do it just because of an unrelated privacy side-note.
  - JohnFen 7y ago
    I was not commenting on the thing that the quote was intending to talk about. I was commenting on the privacy implications of what it actually said. From a privacy point of view, you may as well sign up for an account or install an app -- that's a problem for those of us who wouldn't sign up for an account or install an app due to security concerns.
    - txcwpalpha 7y ago
      >I was not commenting on the thing that the quote was intending to talk about. Exactly, and that's the definition of a strawman. Again, I do agree with your larger points about privacy, but the presentation of your argument rubbed me the wrong way.
      - ForHackernews 7y ago
        It absolutely is not the definition of a strawman. Reading between the lines of marketing (or any text, really) is an important element of critical thinking. There's no rule that says I have to only talk about what your commercial wants me to talk about. Are you really suggesting we should just uncritically nod along with whatever facile ideas are fed to us by an advert? <-- (Psst...this is actually a strawman)
        txcwpalpha 7y ago
        "A straw man (or strawman) is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent." Saying "but you may as well" gives the impression that you refuted the point the quote was making, but in reality you were refuting a point that, by your own admission, the quote was not making. That is a strawman. Reading between the lines of a commercial is fine, and encouraged. Dismissing the point of the commercial entirely because of a semi-related tangent is not. If you meant it differently (perhaps not to dismiss the quote's "argument" but instead to just bring up the privacy implications separately) that's great and I'll take your word for it (and even agree with it), I just found your original quote to be saying something different. edit: I see that you are not the original poster of the comment. This comment was meant for that person, not you. Apologies.
      - JohnFen 7y ago
        > Exactly, and that's the definition of a strawman. No, it's not. A strawman is when you are asserting that someone is making an argument they aren't making, so that you can knock down that argument rather than what they are really postulating. I am not doing that. I haven't asserted that Amazon was making any sort of privacy argument here. I am the one making the privacy argument.

JohnFen 7y ago

> The quotes you've chosen (and the linked website) make no attempt to say that they are privacy related at all. I was pointing those out because of their obvious privacy implications, not because I thought that the article was presenting them as privacy-related. > your comment feels like you're building a strawman. How so? I was merely pointing out two of the several things the article said that got my spidey-senses tingling. I don't see how what I said is anything remotely like a strawman argument.

txcwpalpha 7y ago
In your original comment, the statement "But you may as well" misses the entire point of the quote from the article. You only "may as well" if the only point of that quote is privacy related, but it is not. The benefit of not providing an account or downloading an app is that it provides less friction for the shopper, so you shouldn't "may as well" do it just because of an unrelated privacy side-note.
- JohnFen 7y ago
  I was not commenting on the thing that the quote was intending to talk about. I was commenting on the privacy implications of what it actually said. From a privacy point of view, you may as well sign up for an account or install an app -- that's a problem for those of us who wouldn't sign up for an account or install an app due to security concerns.
  - txcwpalpha 7y ago
    >I was not commenting on the thing that the quote was intending to talk about. Exactly, and that's the definition of a strawman. Again, I do agree with your larger points about privacy, but the presentation of your argument rubbed me the wrong way.
    - ForHackernews 7y ago
      It absolutely is not the definition of a strawman. Reading between the lines of marketing (or any text, really) is an important element of critical thinking. There's no rule that says I have to only talk about what your commercial wants me to talk about. Are you really suggesting we should just uncritically nod along with whatever facile ideas are fed to us by an advert? <-- (Psst...this is actually a strawman)
      - txcwpalpha 7y ago
        "A straw man (or strawman) is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent." Saying "but you may as well" gives the impression that you refuted the point the quote was making, but in reality you were refuting a point that, by your own admission, the quote was not making. That is a strawman. Reading between the lines of a commercial is fine, and encouraged. Dismissing the point of the commercial entirely because of a semi-related tangent is not. If you meant it differently (perhaps not to dismiss the quote's "argument" but instead to just bring up the privacy implications separately) that's great and I'll take your word for it (and even agree with it), I just found your original quote to be saying something different. edit: I see that you are not the original poster of the comment. This comment was meant for that person, not you. Apologies.
    - JohnFen 7y ago
      > Exactly, and that's the definition of a strawman. No, it's not. A strawman is when you are asserting that someone is making an argument they aren't making, so that you can knock down that argument rather than what they are really postulating. I am not doing that. I haven't asserted that Amazon was making any sort of privacy argument here. I am the one making the privacy argument.