4 ms·

I find these rumors continually terrifying. Boot Camp and VMWare Fusion is vital to my workflow. If Apple drops x64, they're dropping me as a customer.

londons_explore 7y ago
Windows runs on ARM, as does Linux. I'm sure if apple switched entirely to ARM, lots of other software would switch too, and we might even eventually see the end of the x86 era.
- jmull 7y ago
  It's not Windows itself that people want to run (need to run, actually), it's Windows-based x64 software. Windows is just one of many pieces of software people would need to run on an ARM-based Mac. Seems pretty clear that this can only work if the ARM-based machines have a pretty decent way of executing x64 binaries.
  - zerkten 7y ago
    It seems like they only have 32-bit app support right now based on articles like https://www.laptopmag.com/articles/surface-pro-x-arm-app-compatibility https://www.laptopmag.com/articles/surface-pro-x-arm-app-com.... I'm curious what the blockers are for x64 software which would obviously be desirable in many ways.
    - Const-me 7y ago
      Most likely Intel's patents on different ISA extensions. E.g. every x64 CPU is required to support at least SSE1 and SSE2.
- mrec 7y ago
  Windows might, but I doubt the majority of Windows software does.
twodayslate 7y ago
[Windows can run on Arm.](https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/arm/ https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/arm/) [ESXi is also coming to Arm.](https://community.arm.com/developer/tools-software/tools/b/tools-software-ides-blog/posts/new-frontiers-for-virtualization-with-vmware-arm https://community.arm.com/developer/tools-software/tools/b/t...)
mattl 7y ago
What's your workflow that you need those, but can't get a Windows PC?
- kethinov 7y ago
  A preference for doing a majority of my work in macOS, but some Windows applications that I need to use as well that cannot / will not ever be ported off of Wintel.
Angostura 7y ago
Back to the good old days of SoftPC, with a reliance on emulation.
rado 7y ago
I need Windows in a VM to test browsers. This should be possible on an Arm Mac with Arm Windows inside QEMU?
pankajdoharey 7y ago
What makes you think BootCamp wont be able to recompile its software on an ARM machine? If an ESXi equivalent extension is brought in to the chip it is entirely possible to do.
zerkten 7y ago
ARM is on the rise within the industry. It's not a trend only for Apple, but Apple might try to move more quickly than other players. My guess is that they'll try to evolve iPad, as an ARM-based portable device, before they look to bring MacBooks over to ARM. This will be a really strong signal that it's time to seriously start porting. Windows is also pushing more ARM support. As a result, some of the infrastructure e.g. Chromium and Electron is starting to get ARM support. I expect other tools, platforms, and frameworks to start getting ARM support, but it won't be quick, or uniform. This will speed up efforts across the industry. I think they really need to break with the past to get the huge battery life gains that are possible, and Intel/AMD don't have much to offer there. I don't think any of this will happen overnight, but Apple will look to move things quickly. I'm not sure it's the same situation that Apple found themselves in when they moved off PowerPC. That was an existential issue for their hardware. Now they are on the incumbent platform, so there is time to make a more considered transition. They have iPad as a place to experiment as long as they maintain the general usability and experience of that platform.

londons_explore 7y ago

Windows runs on ARM, as does Linux. I'm sure if apple switched entirely to ARM, lots of other software would switch too, and we might even eventually see the end of the x86 era.

jmull 7y ago
It's not Windows itself that people want to run (need to run, actually), it's Windows-based x64 software. Windows is just one of many pieces of software people would need to run on an ARM-based Mac. Seems pretty clear that this can only work if the ARM-based machines have a pretty decent way of executing x64 binaries.
- zerkten 7y ago
  It seems like they only have 32-bit app support right now based on articles like https://www.laptopmag.com/articles/surface-pro-x-arm-app-compatibility https://www.laptopmag.com/articles/surface-pro-x-arm-app-com.... I'm curious what the blockers are for x64 software which would obviously be desirable in many ways.
  - Const-me 7y ago
    Most likely Intel's patents on different ISA extensions. E.g. every x64 CPU is required to support at least SSE1 and SSE2.
mrec 7y ago
Windows might, but I doubt the majority of Windows software does.

twodayslate 7y ago

[Windows can run on Arm.](https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/arm/ https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/arm/) [ESXi is also coming to Arm.](https://community.arm.com/developer/tools-software/tools/b/tools-software-ides-blog/posts/new-frontiers-for-virtualization-with-vmware-arm https://community.arm.com/developer/tools-software/tools/b/t...)

mattl 7y ago

What's your workflow that you need those, but can't get a Windows PC?

kethinov 7y ago
A preference for doing a majority of my work in macOS, but some Windows applications that I need to use as well that cannot / will not ever be ported off of Wintel.

Angostura 7y ago

Back to the good old days of SoftPC, with a reliance on emulation.

rado 7y ago

I need Windows in a VM to test browsers. This should be possible on an Arm Mac with Arm Windows inside QEMU?

pankajdoharey 7y ago

What makes you think BootCamp wont be able to recompile its software on an ARM machine? If an ESXi equivalent extension is brought in to the chip it is entirely possible to do.

zerkten 7y ago

ARM is on the rise within the industry. It's not a trend only for Apple, but Apple might try to move more quickly than other players. My guess is that they'll try to evolve iPad, as an ARM-based portable device, before they look to bring MacBooks over to ARM. This will be a really strong signal that it's time to seriously start porting. Windows is also pushing more ARM support. As a result, some of the infrastructure e.g. Chromium and Electron is starting to get ARM support. I expect other tools, platforms, and frameworks to start getting ARM support, but it won't be quick, or uniform. This will speed up efforts across the industry. I think they really need to break with the past to get the huge battery life gains that are possible, and Intel/AMD don't have much to offer there. I don't think any of this will happen overnight, but Apple will look to move things quickly. I'm not sure it's the same situation that Apple found themselves in when they moved off PowerPC. That was an existential issue for their hardware. Now they are on the incumbent platform, so there is time to make a more considered transition. They have iPad as a place to experiment as long as they maintain the general usability and experience of that platform.