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I'm doing http://www.openbeans.org http://www.openbeans.org which is an IDE supporting Java among other programming languages. It's made in Java too. So, I nee

I'm doing http://www.openbeans.org http://www.openbeans.org which is an IDE supporting Java among other programming languages. It's made in Java too. So, I need to distribute a notarized build that also provides a JDK for users. My users would naturally want to debug their own code using the provided JDK. So either we just forget about notarization on developer tools and we just tell people to disable everything or Apple has to figure out some better way. I already see they apply the notarization rules differently so perhaps if you get your tool on the "internal Apple tools whitelist" it's easier. I programmed on Macs since the G4 days but I will not be upgrading the current software or hardware given the current trend. Just switch to a nice Thinkpad running Linux (or a BSD if I feel adventurous).

saagarjha 7y ago
You can debug Java code without running into this issue; the problem is when you try to debug the JVM itself.
- fierarul 7y ago
  I'm not quite certain what this means. So, if my JVM forks another JVM that will debug just fine? Or even that won't work as in I won't be able to add a breakpoint inside some standard Java class?
  - saagarjha 7y ago
    You won't be able to set a breakpoint inside native code: the JVM itself, and any JNI libraries it loads (assuming they too are signed the same way) are off limits. But setting a breakpoint in a Java class should be fine, because that inside the virtual machine and doesn't require special entitlements.
    - fierarul 7y ago
      Thank you. This was quite illuminating.
Wowfunhappy 7y ago
> So either we just forget about notarization on developer tools and we just tell people to disable everything or Apple has to figure out some better way. What would be a better way? A computer either is or is not allowed to execute non-Apple approved code. If you want your computer to execute non-approved code, then let it do that by disabling Gatekeeper.

saagarjha 7y ago

You can debug Java code without running into this issue; the problem is when you try to debug the JVM itself.

fierarul 7y ago
I'm not quite certain what this means. So, if my JVM forks another JVM that will debug just fine? Or even that won't work as in I won't be able to add a breakpoint inside some standard Java class?
- saagarjha 7y ago
  You won't be able to set a breakpoint inside native code: the JVM itself, and any JNI libraries it loads (assuming they too are signed the same way) are off limits. But setting a breakpoint in a Java class should be fine, because that inside the virtual machine and doesn't require special entitlements.
  - fierarul 7y ago
    Thank you. This was quite illuminating.

Wowfunhappy 7y ago

> So either we just forget about notarization on developer tools and we just tell people to disable everything or Apple has to figure out some better way. What would be a better way? A computer either is or is not allowed to execute non-Apple approved code. If you want your computer to execute non-approved code, then let it do that by disabling Gatekeeper.