3 ms·

In your example, assuming that a million-line program is well done in its language, you'd have exactly the same complexity but now in a thousand lines, meaning

by cygx 7y ago

In your example, assuming that a million-line program is well done in its language, you'd have exactly the same complexity but now in a thousand lines, meaning that now each line does more, is more complex and changing it/understanding it is more difficult and prone to errors. It would be equally (if not more) impossible to understand. Disagreed. Reductio ad absurdum: It's not a good idea to force everyone to program in machine code, writing sequences of 1s and 0s. Why? Because the right abstractions (and associated notation) do make complexity more manageable.

gjulianm 7y ago
Ok, you're right. It's not so clear-cut, but there's definitely a balance to find. Of course, assembly is far better than machine code. C is almost always better than assembly, because it maps better the mental ideas to code than assembly. After that, you have higher-level languages and then the change is not that clear. High-level languages tend to hide the complexity of dealing with the computer: in Python, JS, Haskell or K you don't need to worry about memory allocations, or how objects are defined, or how to pass arguments to functions. Sometimes you need to worry about that, and having a language that does that for you makes your program harder to understand (how does JS work with parallelism? When is an object an object and not a copy? Suddenly you need to know how does JS do certain things and that complexity reappears in your program). Now, for the example, when I said that the million-line program is well done, I was thinking about some JS, Python, C++, or Java application without too much unnecessary cruft and that maps properly problem concepts to code concepts. If the 1000x line reduction (if that even exists) is done on the basis of smart one-liners, unreadable code and constructs and language-specific, it's not worth it. Say your application was a physics simulator of a certain situation. Most people would want the million-lines Python code where each function and each part is understandable and lets you focus on the problem at hand, instead of a thousand lines where you not only have a difficult problem but also a difficult code.

by cygx 7y ago

gjulianm 7y ago

Ok, you're right. It's not so clear-cut, but there's definitely a balance to find. Of course, assembly is far better than machine code. C is almost always better than assembly, because it maps better the mental ideas to code than assembly. After that, you have higher-level languages and then the change is not that clear. High-level languages tend to hide the complexity of dealing with the computer: in Python, JS, Haskell or K you don't need to worry about memory allocations, or how objects are defined, or how to pass arguments to functions. Sometimes you need to worry about that, and having a language that does that for you makes your program harder to understand (how does JS work with parallelism? When is an object an object and not a copy? Suddenly you need to know how does JS do certain things and that complexity reappears in your program). Now, for the example, when I said that the million-line program is well done, I was thinking about some JS, Python, C++, or Java application without too much unnecessary cruft and that maps properly problem concepts to code concepts. If the 1000x line reduction (if that even exists) is done on the basis of smart one-liners, unreadable code and constructs and language-specific, it's not worth it. Say your application was a physics simulator of a certain situation. Most people would want the million-lines Python code where each function and each part is understandable and lets you focus on the problem at hand, instead of a thousand lines where you not only have a difficult problem but also a difficult code.