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My use of the word "commercial" is not apt. I meant to say "mainstream" languages.
by shivekkhurana 7y ago
My use of the word "commercial" is not apt. I meant to say "mainstream" languages.
- lispm 7y agoThat would exclude Clojure, too.
- yogthos 7y agoSeeing how Clojure is actively used at places like Apple, Amazon, Atlassian, and even Walmart where software development isn't even their primary business, I think it's pretty safe to call it mainstream.
- lispm 7y agoI would call languages like Java, Javascript, Python, C++, C# 'mainstream'. But not niche languages which have 1/100ths or less of open positions. Monster lists 68000 positions after a search for 'Java', and 180 for 'Clojure'.
- yogthos 7y agoI would call any language that's actively used in the industry with a large and active community mainstream. Restricting the term mainstream to a handful of most used languages is pretty silly in my opinion.
- lispm 7y agoIt's just that the community is not large. It's small. To think that 'a few thousand people' is large among millions of other programmers is 'silly' (to quote you).
- yogthos 7y agoI'd love to know where your numbers come from
- lispm 7y agoDo you have other numbers? The last Clojure survey has ~2500 people responding. Which is basically the same for several years now. I we assume that 10 times more people are actively using Clojure, then that would be 25000. Still a lot less than the probably 7 million Java programmers and 8 million Python developers. https://www.zdnet.com/article/programming-languages-python-developers-now-outnumber-java-ones/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/programming-languages-python-d...
- yogthos 7y agoI'm not arguing that Clojure is as widely used as Java or Python, which are two most popular languages in the world. I'm saying that it's a ridiculous bar to set for calling something mainstream. However, there are some other metrics we can look at. For example, if we look at downloads for popular libraries, we can see that Ring's been downloaded 9,058,741 times, and obviously there are repeat downloads for the same users, but even accounting for that it indicates a much bigger user base than you're suggesting. https://clojars.org/ring/ring-core https://clojars.org/ring/ring-core Other data points would be commercial tooling like Cursive and commercial funding for projects with organizations like Clojurists Together indicates that there is a critical mass of commercial users who are willing to fund projects https://lambdaisland.com/blog/2020-02-03-open-collective-lambda-island-open-source https://lambdaisland.com/blog/2020-02-03-open-collective-lam... https://www.clojuriststogether.org/ https://www.clojuriststogether.org/ Finally, Clojure usage is growing for new projects both in enterprise and government sectors in countries like Finalnd https://twitter.com/autiomaa/status/1235944730267193345 https://twitter.com/autiomaa/status/1235944730267193345 https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1nCZ-GmWLcH8Dcz3XJHY00xbm42V9-rBL9n2PGkKYp0k/edit?folder=0AM-3FGnMl8asUk9PVA https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1nCZ-GmWLcH8Dcz3XJHY0... This is a very different picture from a tiny isolated community of a few thousand developers that you seem to be painting.
- 7y ago
- Scarbutt 7y agoThe only project at Amazon that uses Clojure is one legacy project in maintenance mode.
- yogthos 7y agoI'll take your word on that. However, that doesn't change my point that Clojure is used at lost of large companies, and the recent developer survey showed that it's becoming more widely used at large companies.