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In the US I have gotten or been part of getting a driver's license, building permits, government jobs, and government contracts and have never paid a bribe, bee

In the US I have gotten or been part of getting a driver's license, building permits, government jobs, and government contracts and have never paid a bribe, been offered one, or seen someone else do so except in a newspaper story. I don't know if the cynicism is warranted or helpful really. Of course every country has bad actors and every system has problems but there are real differences and improvements possible.

newyankee 7y ago
The difference is US or Western countries are already mature. I am sure different types of corruption existed there in 19th century when the country was still expanding. Off course culture of people matter but systemic rot arises when existing people work in what essentially is sometimes a negative sum game. Fights between heterogeneous groups over limited resources exist and far too often much powerful foreign powers do interfere to make the best of the situation for themselves.
xbmcuser 7y ago
In low corruption countries there is corruption but at a larger scale at a higher level as few people would want to risk it unless we are talking millions. Or it's legalised like in the us in the name of political donations. These same Western companies pay bribes and do corruption in the third world and are even protected by their governments.
ncmncm 7y ago
In the US, corruption is centralized and explicitly legal, so not labeled corruption. It's conducted wholesale, not retail as in less organized countries. Individual functionaries would be in competition, so any such activity is crushed ruthlessly where it appears. Meanwhile, bribing politicians pays 1000x+, and automated "trading" produces billionaires. The resentment that drove populism is well-founded, but (cleverly) misdirected.
warlog 7y ago
Lobbying Congress. Do you vote in elections? Why? Your options(tm) have been pre-purposed so nothing you do matters. This is the highest form of corruption.
- ALittleLight 7y ago
  You can work with the parties or vote at a local level. At the national level your vote feels infinitesimal because it is. You get 1 300 millionth a say in who the next President is, for example. That's not really corruption so much as it is not having much of a say in who the national leaders are. As the other comment mentioned, corruption is more like having to pay bribes to the police at traffic stops, bribes to get government services, etc. In some countries, if I were stopped by the police I'd fully expect and try to "Can I pay the fine here?" In the US I'd fully expect that trying to do so would get me worse legal trouble. Corruption is world wide, no doubt, but it doesn't occur with the same frequency worldwide.
  - fbi-director 7y ago
    Think bigger than what you see on the news please. What you're describing is low level corruption. Now consider how many construction projects and government services are being 'outsourced' or 'privatized' and take wild guess how much money is ending up in the wrong pockets at that game. Not to mention the lack of quality control and general oversight that often comes along with it. That's much worse than some traffic cops taking a cut or bribe. Which is also bad. But first the major corruption should be dealt with.
  - sporkland 7y ago
    I wish my vote was 1 out or 300 million at a federal level. Due to the electoral college my vote in California is worth 1/3rd what someone in Wyoming's is worth.
anticodon 7y ago
In the US corruption happens at the very high level, where it's hard to be seen. One tiny example is the murder of Epstein. Also, US simply made significant portion of corruption legal by calling it lobbying. In all the other countries it's a corruption, but not in US because they simply renamed it.
- grandmczeb 7y ago
  > US simply made significant portion of corruption legal by calling it lobbying Lobbying is legal in every free country on earth. What specifically are you referring to?
- anon9001 7y ago
  > One tiny example is the murder of Epstein. Really interesting one because it drifted from being the most likely theory to a "conspiracy theory" pretty rapidly. Once Barr said he was going to get the bottom of it, the media coverage mostly dried up.
hdb1 7y ago
This is a terrible anecdote. I'm brazillian, and my country is factually one of the most corrupt in the world, and I have done all of this things (in fact I work in government), and have never paid or seen or even heard of anyone paying a bribe (other than in the news, like you). People have a very bad idea of what corruption actually is. Low level bribes don't really make a difference anywhere. What really matters is corruption at the highest levels, that change how the whole economy works, and these you only hear when the (proverbial) dam breaks.

newyankee 7y ago

The difference is US or Western countries are already mature. I am sure different types of corruption existed there in 19th century when the country was still expanding. Off course culture of people matter but systemic rot arises when existing people work in what essentially is sometimes a negative sum game. Fights between heterogeneous groups over limited resources exist and far too often much powerful foreign powers do interfere to make the best of the situation for themselves.

xbmcuser 7y ago

In low corruption countries there is corruption but at a larger scale at a higher level as few people would want to risk it unless we are talking millions. Or it's legalised like in the us in the name of political donations. These same Western companies pay bribes and do corruption in the third world and are even protected by their governments.

ncmncm 7y ago

In the US, corruption is centralized and explicitly legal, so not labeled corruption. It's conducted wholesale, not retail as in less organized countries. Individual functionaries would be in competition, so any such activity is crushed ruthlessly where it appears. Meanwhile, bribing politicians pays 1000x+, and automated "trading" produces billionaires. The resentment that drove populism is well-founded, but (cleverly) misdirected.

warlog 7y ago

Lobbying Congress. Do you vote in elections? Why? Your options(tm) have been pre-purposed so nothing you do matters. This is the highest form of corruption.

ALittleLight 7y ago
You can work with the parties or vote at a local level. At the national level your vote feels infinitesimal because it is. You get 1 300 millionth a say in who the next President is, for example. That's not really corruption so much as it is not having much of a say in who the national leaders are. As the other comment mentioned, corruption is more like having to pay bribes to the police at traffic stops, bribes to get government services, etc. In some countries, if I were stopped by the police I'd fully expect and try to "Can I pay the fine here?" In the US I'd fully expect that trying to do so would get me worse legal trouble. Corruption is world wide, no doubt, but it doesn't occur with the same frequency worldwide.
- fbi-director 7y ago
  Think bigger than what you see on the news please. What you're describing is low level corruption. Now consider how many construction projects and government services are being 'outsourced' or 'privatized' and take wild guess how much money is ending up in the wrong pockets at that game. Not to mention the lack of quality control and general oversight that often comes along with it. That's much worse than some traffic cops taking a cut or bribe. Which is also bad. But first the major corruption should be dealt with.
- sporkland 7y ago
  I wish my vote was 1 out or 300 million at a federal level. Due to the electoral college my vote in California is worth 1/3rd what someone in Wyoming's is worth.

anticodon 7y ago

In the US corruption happens at the very high level, where it's hard to be seen. One tiny example is the murder of Epstein. Also, US simply made significant portion of corruption legal by calling it lobbying. In all the other countries it's a corruption, but not in US because they simply renamed it.

grandmczeb 7y ago
> US simply made significant portion of corruption legal by calling it lobbying Lobbying is legal in every free country on earth. What specifically are you referring to?
anon9001 7y ago
> One tiny example is the murder of Epstein. Really interesting one because it drifted from being the most likely theory to a "conspiracy theory" pretty rapidly. Once Barr said he was going to get the bottom of it, the media coverage mostly dried up.

hdb1 7y ago

This is a terrible anecdote. I'm brazillian, and my country is factually one of the most corrupt in the world, and I have done all of this things (in fact I work in government), and have never paid or seen or even heard of anyone paying a bribe (other than in the news, like you). People have a very bad idea of what corruption actually is. Low level bribes don't really make a difference anywhere. What really matters is corruption at the highest levels, that change how the whole economy works, and these you only hear when the (proverbial) dam breaks.