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Cats also kill billions of birds every year, way more than any number of windmills or skyscrapers ever did. And they don’t do it for food, either. It’s just bec

Cats also kill billions of birds every year, way more than any number of windmills or skyscrapers ever did. And they don’t do it for food, either. It’s just because cats are jerks.

giancarlostoro 7y ago
Most cats I know stay indoors but I had no idea they killed so many birds.
- fiblye 7y ago
  Most cats I know stay indoors as well. Most of the cats I don't know stay outdoors. Walking 10 minutes down any quiet street usually results in me seeing at least a cat or two. Cats are very common if you're looking for them.
  - giancarlostoro 7y ago
    I only noticed them when I lived in apartments. Now that I live in a neighborhood I don't see them unless it's in a house. I live in Florida so things might be different here.
the8472 7y ago
Should cat owners be held legally liable for the animal cruelty committed by their pets?
- dx87 7y ago
  I think cats should lose their special pet status if they aren't kept indoors or restricted to an owner's yard. There were a couple of "outdoor cats" in my neighborhood a few years ago, and they'll kill birds in my yard, attack my dogs, leave dead animals on my porch, etc. There was nothing I could do about it though, because cats are considered pets whether or not they actually have an owner. Animal control said all you can do is try to humanely catch them, then take them to a shelter, you can't leave out poison like you can with mice and rats.
- dodobirdlord 7y ago
  Cat owners should certainly be fined for allowing their cats outdoors on continents where cats are non-native.
- ip26 7y ago
  It's less about 'cruelty' and more about the desolation which domestic cats have brought upon native bird populations. Unfortunately as long as people feel entitled to let their cats outside, I'm not sure how we ever solve it. It's really kind of sad we are so casually sponsoring such destruction, for so little purpose. The grandparent speaks truly.
- Razengan 7y ago
  Should meat consumers be held legally liable for the animal cruelty committed by the meat industry? (I realize the effects of cats upon other animals, but your logic..)
  - the8472 7y ago
    The meat industry is operated by legally responsible humans. Pets on the other hand are not legal entities, it seems logical that the liability would fall to the owner.
    - Razengan 7y ago
      You didn’t answer why the meat industry shouldn’t be held liable for animal cruelty.
      - the8472 7y ago
        You didn't ask that question. You asked whether consumers (not the meat industry) should be be held liable. But certainly, if the meat industry meets the bar of criminal animal cruelty then I don't see why they shouldn't be held liable. My initial comment was whether existing animal cruelty statutes should be extended to cover pet owners instead of only direct actions by people, assuming they don't already do so.
        Razengan 7y ago
        You seem to be aware of cats committing animal cruelty but you're not sure if the meat industry meets the bar of animal cruelty? What?
        the8472 7y ago
        No, you asked whether it should be held liable. I answered that it should be held liable, conditional on the legal process determining so. We can't just decide that they should be held liable by mob vote, that's not how justice works. Hence my answer: If A then B. I made no statement wrt. my personal opinion whether A is true or not. But even rolling with the argument for a moment that the meat industry meets the bar and manages to evade the law anyway. That is no justification for letting pets do the same. Two wrongs don't make a right and all that, so for the purpose of this conversation that would seem like an unnecessary deflection of responsibility by pet owners and the better answer is to improve both.
anitil 7y ago
They're an environmental disaster here in Australia because our native wildlife didn't really evolve with that sort of predator. I believe NZ has it even worse as they had basically no land-based predators other than humans, and so have many birds that nest on land or spend significant amounts of time on land.
ericmcer 7y ago
Not sure why you are being downvoted so heavily. Cats are killers by design, google “cat fairy terns” to read about a single cat decimating an entire colony of birds and forcing them onto a new migratory path. It’s not spoken of as much in the states because people love their cats here, but many of them are little furry murder machines that kill for fun.
- thedance 7y ago
  I'm being downvoted because people who live with cats are controlled by brain parasites communicated from the cats. That's why cat owners don't seem to realize that they are living with the most disagreeable domestic animal.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
zzo38computer 7y ago
If indeed is not do for food then I should think something should be done perhaps, although is not clear what to do. Other people know better and wrote some comments. Another comment says "cat owners should certainly be fined for allowing their cats outdoors on continents where cats are non-native"; perhaps in such continents, force to go inside if they killed too many birds (and if you don't want inside of your home, then it will be the cats jail, I suppose; or else, in the other continent, perhaps). Although, actually I don't really know, especially, since I have not observed it by myself and I have not counted.

Cats also kill billions of birds every year, way more than any number of windmills or skyscrapers ever did. And they don’t do it for food, either. It’s just because cats are jerks.

giancarlostoro 7y ago

Most cats I know stay indoors but I had no idea they killed so many birds.

fiblye 7y ago
Most cats I know stay indoors as well. Most of the cats I don't know stay outdoors. Walking 10 minutes down any quiet street usually results in me seeing at least a cat or two. Cats are very common if you're looking for them.
- giancarlostoro 7y ago
  I only noticed them when I lived in apartments. Now that I live in a neighborhood I don't see them unless it's in a house. I live in Florida so things might be different here.

the8472 7y ago

Should cat owners be held legally liable for the animal cruelty committed by their pets?

dx87 7y ago
I think cats should lose their special pet status if they aren't kept indoors or restricted to an owner's yard. There were a couple of "outdoor cats" in my neighborhood a few years ago, and they'll kill birds in my yard, attack my dogs, leave dead animals on my porch, etc. There was nothing I could do about it though, because cats are considered pets whether or not they actually have an owner. Animal control said all you can do is try to humanely catch them, then take them to a shelter, you can't leave out poison like you can with mice and rats.
dodobirdlord 7y ago
Cat owners should certainly be fined for allowing their cats outdoors on continents where cats are non-native.
ip26 7y ago
It's less about 'cruelty' and more about the desolation which domestic cats have brought upon native bird populations. Unfortunately as long as people feel entitled to let their cats outside, I'm not sure how we ever solve it. It's really kind of sad we are so casually sponsoring such destruction, for so little purpose. The grandparent speaks truly.
Razengan 7y ago
Should meat consumers be held legally liable for the animal cruelty committed by the meat industry? (I realize the effects of cats upon other animals, but your logic..)
- the8472 7y ago
  The meat industry is operated by legally responsible humans. Pets on the other hand are not legal entities, it seems logical that the liability would fall to the owner.
  - Razengan 7y ago
    You didn’t answer why the meat industry shouldn’t be held liable for animal cruelty.
    - the8472 7y ago
      You didn't ask that question. You asked whether consumers (not the meat industry) should be be held liable. But certainly, if the meat industry meets the bar of criminal animal cruelty then I don't see why they shouldn't be held liable. My initial comment was whether existing animal cruelty statutes should be extended to cover pet owners instead of only direct actions by people, assuming they don't already do so.
      - Razengan 7y ago
        You seem to be aware of cats committing animal cruelty but you're not sure if the meat industry meets the bar of animal cruelty? What?
        the8472 7y ago
        No, you asked whether it should be held liable. I answered that it should be held liable, conditional on the legal process determining so. We can't just decide that they should be held liable by mob vote, that's not how justice works. Hence my answer: If A then B. I made no statement wrt. my personal opinion whether A is true or not. But even rolling with the argument for a moment that the meat industry meets the bar and manages to evade the law anyway. That is no justification for letting pets do the same. Two wrongs don't make a right and all that, so for the purpose of this conversation that would seem like an unnecessary deflection of responsibility by pet owners and the better answer is to improve both.

anitil 7y ago

They're an environmental disaster here in Australia because our native wildlife didn't really evolve with that sort of predator. I believe NZ has it even worse as they had basically no land-based predators other than humans, and so have many birds that nest on land or spend significant amounts of time on land.

ericmcer 7y ago

Not sure why you are being downvoted so heavily. Cats are killers by design, google “cat fairy terns” to read about a single cat decimating an entire colony of birds and forcing them onto a new migratory path. It’s not spoken of as much in the states because people love their cats here, but many of them are little furry murder machines that kill for fun.

thedance 7y ago
I'm being downvoted because people who live with cats are controlled by brain parasites communicated from the cats. That's why cat owners don't seem to realize that they are living with the most disagreeable domestic animal.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]

zzo38computer 7y ago

If indeed is not do for food then I should think something should be done perhaps, although is not clear what to do. Other people know better and wrote some comments. Another comment says "cat owners should certainly be fined for allowing their cats outdoors on continents where cats are non-native"; perhaps in such continents, force to go inside if they killed too many birds (and if you don't want inside of your home, then it will be the cats jail, I suppose; or else, in the other continent, perhaps). Although, actually I don't really know, especially, since I have not observed it by myself and I have not counted.