8 ms·

Did you forward those essays to the powers that be?

by YuriNiyazov 16y ago

tptacek 16y ago
No. I'm high-drama enough as it is.
- YuriNiyazov 16y ago
  Well, based on what I've seen so far, PG usually asks for datasets that support the point that one is making about the degradation of the community. If the essays that you have are just long rants, they will be easy to ignore. However, if there exists a dataset that supports those various points, as well as suggestions on how to change HN, PG usually seems very reasonable about trying them out.
JonnieCache 16y ago
If there is one thing that causes an internet community to break down, its when a subsection of that community has too muh communication out-of-band in another medium that the rest of the members are unaware of. Especially if that other medium is more synchronous than the primary medium. Many forums have been driven to civil war by a clique plotting on a secret IRC channel. (Note: I am not suggesting that is happening here! Just that I've seen it before.)
- tptacek 16y ago
  What was the point of this comment? (I'm asking seriously; I want to know what it is you're specifically trying to communicate here).
  - JonnieCache 16y ago
    It was an innocent observation: I was sharing an anecdote about my experiences on other internet communities. The mention of the fact that the higher-karma, "ingroup" members of HN seem more likely to communicate with each other on twitter and in private emails than the rest of the population reminded me of bad situations I had seen on other forums. I then thought how glad I was that here on HN it seems to happen on twitter which is still largely public. You commented quickly here about private conversations regarding HN with other high-karma members. It is reassuring that you were open, and happy to be open about this. This gives me faith in what I find to be an excellent community that the inevitable psychological group-dynamics type phenomena are playing themselves out here in a relatively benign way, due to its high calibre membership. Your later comment "I'm too high drama for that" came across as an amusingly wry confirmation that you feel the same way. As I said, this put me in mind of situations I have seen in lesser communities where this dynamic had led to ugly scenes. I posted about them. I then felt bad that you or someone else might misinterpret this as an accusation against them. Thats why I added my parenthetical note. Perhaps I should have reconsidered the whole thing.
    - DanielBMarkham 16y ago
      For all the newer people, I encourage everybody to come by the HN secret cabal IRC channel, #startups. I found that the term "secret cabal" really sounds much more exciting than the actual channel ;)I try to go by at least once a week, though. It's fun to be in more of a real-time discussion. I would also encourage people to look up folks' email and email them with questions and such. Great way to make new friends. Many a time I've tracked somebody down from an HN discussion only to have it continue via email. (It also brings the noise factor down over here, which is always a good thing) I know a lot of guys follow everybody they can from HN on Twitter. I don't know if I would personally go that far -- Twitter has a hecuva lot of noise and I get easily distracted -- but it works for some. So yes, there's a lot of out-of-band chat going on, but as far as I know, none of it is exclusive. If you'd like to participate more, the same channels are open for anybody. I know I keep my Twitter, Facebook, and email addresses in my profile for just that very reason.
      - Mz 16y ago
        I encourage everybody to come by the HN secret cabal IRC channel, #startups. Do you mean through here: http://www.ircnet.org/ http://www.ircnet.org/ ? If so, either I'm doing something wrong or the Secret Cabal is not in session tonight (darnit).
        crux_ 16y ago
        I think it's on freenode.
        merijnv 16y ago
        Yes, it is on FreeNode. Which is (in my opinion) to other IRC networks what HN is to other link aggregators.
    - pnathan 16y ago
      There seems to be a regular effort to help HN posters connect with each other. Doesn't seem like a month or two goes by without another site that offers that.

Did you forward those essays to the powers that be?

tptacek 16y ago

No. I'm high-drama enough as it is.

YuriNiyazov 16y ago
Well, based on what I've seen so far, PG usually asks for datasets that support the point that one is making about the degradation of the community. If the essays that you have are just long rants, they will be easy to ignore. However, if there exists a dataset that supports those various points, as well as suggestions on how to change HN, PG usually seems very reasonable about trying them out.

JonnieCache 16y ago

If there is one thing that causes an internet community to break down, its when a subsection of that community has too muh communication out-of-band in another medium that the rest of the members are unaware of. Especially if that other medium is more synchronous than the primary medium. Many forums have been driven to civil war by a clique plotting on a secret IRC channel. (Note: I am not suggesting that is happening here! Just that I've seen it before.)

tptacek 16y ago
What was the point of this comment? (I'm asking seriously; I want to know what it is you're specifically trying to communicate here).
- JonnieCache 16y ago
  It was an innocent observation: I was sharing an anecdote about my experiences on other internet communities. The mention of the fact that the higher-karma, "ingroup" members of HN seem more likely to communicate with each other on twitter and in private emails than the rest of the population reminded me of bad situations I had seen on other forums. I then thought how glad I was that here on HN it seems to happen on twitter which is still largely public. You commented quickly here about private conversations regarding HN with other high-karma members. It is reassuring that you were open, and happy to be open about this. This gives me faith in what I find to be an excellent community that the inevitable psychological group-dynamics type phenomena are playing themselves out here in a relatively benign way, due to its high calibre membership. Your later comment "I'm too high drama for that" came across as an amusingly wry confirmation that you feel the same way. As I said, this put me in mind of situations I have seen in lesser communities where this dynamic had led to ugly scenes. I posted about them. I then felt bad that you or someone else might misinterpret this as an accusation against them. Thats why I added my parenthetical note. Perhaps I should have reconsidered the whole thing.
  - DanielBMarkham 16y ago
    For all the newer people, I encourage everybody to come by the HN secret cabal IRC channel, #startups. I found that the term "secret cabal" really sounds much more exciting than the actual channel ;)I try to go by at least once a week, though. It's fun to be in more of a real-time discussion. I would also encourage people to look up folks' email and email them with questions and such. Great way to make new friends. Many a time I've tracked somebody down from an HN discussion only to have it continue via email. (It also brings the noise factor down over here, which is always a good thing) I know a lot of guys follow everybody they can from HN on Twitter. I don't know if I would personally go that far -- Twitter has a hecuva lot of noise and I get easily distracted -- but it works for some. So yes, there's a lot of out-of-band chat going on, but as far as I know, none of it is exclusive. If you'd like to participate more, the same channels are open for anybody. I know I keep my Twitter, Facebook, and email addresses in my profile for just that very reason.
    - Mz 16y ago
      I encourage everybody to come by the HN secret cabal IRC channel, #startups. Do you mean through here: http://www.ircnet.org/ http://www.ircnet.org/ ? If so, either I'm doing something wrong or the Secret Cabal is not in session tonight (darnit).
      - crux_ 16y ago
        I think it's on freenode.
        merijnv 16y ago
        Yes, it is on FreeNode. Which is (in my opinion) to other IRC networks what HN is to other link aggregators.
  - pnathan 16y ago
    There seems to be a regular effort to help HN posters connect with each other. Doesn't seem like a month or two goes by without another site that offers that.