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Think about this: The office is 5-20 minutes away. There is a good work culture. You have friends at the office. You can easily go home for a quick errand at l

Think about this: The office is 5-20 minutes away. There is a good work culture. You have friends at the office. You can easily go home for a quick errand at lunch. WFH wouldn't be as appealing. Now consider: The office is 1 hour away on a good day. Traffic is very frustrating. Parking is expensive, same with transit which is hard to get an hour away. You get home at 6 if you're lucky. After 2 frustrating commutes and a rough day at work, and having to wake up very early to make the commute, you don't feel like working out. You get the point.

toomuchtodo 7y ago
Let me work from home from a low cost of living area, where there is an inexpensive coworking space where I can work with others and have camaraderie, but also build a professional network (getting hired is who you know more than what you know). My coworking space might even have some gym equipment and showers for during lunch, as well as free parking, but also be close enough I could ride a bike if I was feeling ambitious. If my gig doesn't work out, because I work with others from other orgs, I can find a gig elsewhere rapidly that also supports remote work (or pickup freelance work). WFH is a misnomer, a poor term. People want flexibility, so give them flexibility. "Work where you want, when you want, as long as the work gets done." This is what I do today. I eat lunch with my wife and kids, and I am always home for breakfast and dinner, but I have space to focus on work (it is crucial IMHO to separate your work and home spaces, based on six years of remote work) and an area to have meetings if needed. There is no reason this model can't scale up; less WeWork, more Mr Money Mustache's coworking space [1]. Some travel might be required occasionally, but I've found all remote roles and orgs experience this; it's the entry ticket for having an amazingly higher quality of life compared to an "on site" role. Alternatively, I know people who work 8-9 hours in an office complex with 100 mile round trip commutes. Hard pass. You want help building a coworking space? I will help you build a coworking space. This is the future of work. [1] https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/hq/ https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/hq/
libraryatnight 7y ago
This matters so much. I am a strong advocate for WFH. When I worked an hour and change away from the office, and I went WFH I felt so much better about life. Suddenly, when work ended, I was just off. No commute to frustrate me. I'd walk away from my desk, and start dinner then hit the gym. On lunches I took walks. It was glorious. I did however start to fatigue as time went on. I was wound up at the end of the day while my wife was ready to wind down because some days I just felt like I'd been isolated all day. Even with walks and going to the gym in evenings. A year or so ago we moved 20 minutes from my office. Some stuff happened with management etc that they wanted people to at least come in a couple days if possible. So I did. Being only 20 minutes away I didn't mind it as much. I had also been migrated to a new team that I really got along with. We lunch together, we shoot the shit if things are chill, I get pulled in on more interesting projects because I'm right there and if I hear someone talking about something I know I'd be helpful on I chime in "Hey, I can help with that" - things I'd have missed out on getting to do if I were at home waiting for someone to send me a Jira ticket or mention it during morning standup. I also have more visibility with our VPs and directors. Anyway, IMO, WFH is fantastic - especially when you live far away - but some office face time is also great. Good for people, good for careers. I feel incredibly fortunate to have stumbled into a position where I have the option to WFH, but also enjoy 3 or 4 days in the office.
- Ericson2314 7y ago
  Everyone being in small coop they live < 30 minutes away from that voluntarily joins and leaves larger organizations (and not in some bullshit primordial john locke way) should be the goal almost everyone can get behind. WFH is right that autonomy is good (being away from a boss) and commutes are bad, but denying the social nature of our species when work (for better or worse) consumes so much time is ludicrous.
  - raducu 7y ago
    I absolutely agree on the 30 minutes commute. I used to have that, my office changed location to 1h commute and the 2 days of wfh still mean more commute time than no wfh previously. I've had 50minutes commute before, but it was just one uninterrupted subway ride which meant I could follow some online courses, but 1h of commute that involves 2x 10 minutes walks and 2 subway changes, its just hell. I feel that the bank just had to let people with 2 wfh days, lest people quit en mass.
- SuoDuanDao 7y ago
  I've been thinking about creative ways around this - do you have any guess how the dynamic would change if everyone in a remote-first team had an hour lunch they all took in the same minecraft server (or something)? I feel like that would give a lot of time for people to talk shop in the way you're describing, but I've never heard of it being implemented.
  - blaser-waffle 7y ago
    Great in spirit, but IMO it would feel like another mandatory "fun" activity, just another obligation. It's not something that can be implemented but something that evolves. I think the key is to create lacunae in the office that allow the culture to form. Watercoolers or smoke breaks or 100% informal happy hour beers, etc. Once leadership makes it "a thing" it loses its dynamic.
    - SuoDuanDao 7y ago
Ericson2314 7y ago
Yeah 95% < 20 minute public transportation for me. Very little interest in working from home.
mrfusion 7y ago
This is absolutely the issue! I wish companies would consider small satellite offices.
darepublic 7y ago
Yes the commute is incredibly draining
dahfizz 7y ago
Sure. In the absolute worst case, WFH is better. That doesn't really tell us anything. The average commute is 26.9 minutes, and that is heavily skewed by metropolitan areas. Some data here[1]. Now let's consider the worst case WFH scenario: you're paid less, promotions are less frequent, there is less comradery among your team, you feel lonely because you spent your whole workday alone. You get the point. Obviously, the best case scenario is to allow workers to decide what they want to do. Picking the form of work that fits your personality, your career, your home life, your values, etc and then trying to force that on 300+ million people is absurd. The good news is that a substantial amount of people do get to choose[2]. [1] https://www.census.gov/library/visualizations/interactive/work-travel-time.html https://www.census.gov/library/visualizations/interactive/wo... [2] https://news.gallup.com/businessjournal/206033/america-coming-workplace-home-alone.aspx?utm_source=link_wwwv9&utm_campaign=item_236222&utm_medium=copy https://news.gallup.com/businessjournal/206033/america-comin...
- ntsplnkv2 7y ago
  This is a straw-man - I didn't propose the worst case. There are many cases which are far worse. So already that is, on average, 1 hour lost per commuting. A huge portion would have commutes worse than that. That data would always be skewed by metro areas - that is where most people live, and where housing would force people to take long commutes. > Now let's consider the worst case WFH scenario: you're paid less, promotions are less frequent, there is less comradery among your team, you feel lonely because you spent your whole workday alone. You get the point. Why would you argue this, if in the very first sentence of your reply, you stated the worst case "doesn't really tell us anything?" Back to the straw-man point - no one is suggesting that anyone be forced to do anything. Just pointing out why many would like an option to WFH whereas others may not. I agree overall that more choice and flexibility is good.
  - tomatocracy 7y ago
    I think it's a mistake to view all commuting time as "lost". For example, my commute is about 40 minutes door to door. But I walk to work and listen to podcasts as I go so I'm getting some light exercise and catching up on things I want to listen to. If I didn't do these as part of my commute, I'd have to find other time to do them. I also find it helpful mentally to have a "transition" time between home and work to get ready for my day or wind down after work when things are getting more stressful, and I've heard others say the same. Friends who commute to work on the train use the time to read books or sleep. Again, if they didn't do these things then, they'd need to find some other time to do them so the actual amount of lost time is pretty small.
SkyPuncher 7y ago
Also, some flexibility to WFH is nice. A friend and I are starting to do "workcations" several times per year (he typically works in office, I work 100% remotely). We go somewhere, work our during the day then go do something in the evenings - typically skiing or mountain biking. It's an amazing setup. We both typically get more done at work, because we're focused and wanting to get to our evening activity. 4 hours of skiing or biking in the evening is more than enough (especially when we do it 8 days straight). That is one perk, I will never give up. Working on a 100% remote team has made me care about vacation days much less. Instead of taking a 3 to 4 day trip somewhere, I'll simply take a full week and work during the day (possibly still taking some time off.)
- rexarex 7y ago
  Where are you finding all the good night skiing?
  - mattio 7y ago
    Brighton, UT has some night time skiing (I think until 9 pm).
  - loco5niner 7y ago
    Mt Hood is about 1.5 hours outside of Portland, OR and has good night skiing.
  - rjsw 7y ago
    I have done night skiing when I worked in Detroit.
  - SkyPuncher 7y ago
    My wife and I moved to Wausau, WI for her residency. Granite Peak is pretty much in our backyard. It's a midwest "mountain" but it does the job. Extremely nice to get out for an hour after work. Many of the midwest hills near major cities have night skiing nearly every day of the week. Steamboat is probably the most well known "big resort".
- Plyphon_ 7y ago
manigandham 7y ago
People can do both. Our last startup had a small permanent HQ, flexible WFH, and a Regus subscription. All of our employees loved being able to WRF or get an office wherever they needed, especially sales who could meet in a local space close to their meetings for that day.
Spooky23 7y ago
Consider that instead of paying a big metro salary, your employer will do what defense contractors do... pay 120% of the median salary in Nowhereville.
- jjoonathan 7y ago
  The defense contractor can't offshore your job. Once we normalize WFH, give it a decade and SWE salaries will be 120% of India, not 120% of Nowhereville.
  - MAGZine 7y ago
    There are still significant challenges wrt workplace culture, meeting times, organizational setup (how work is actually synchronized between timezones/handed off), and, most importantly, language. That said, a decade is a long time from now.
    - Piskvorrr 7y ago
      Language can be learned; but working with an European/US West/Malaysian team was a nightmare, because there's no way to schedule anything in everyone's daytime, and the resulting latency has horrible knock-on effects. Everything else can be changed, but the rotation of the Earth is...sort of non-negotiable. (Mind you, we avoided actual teleconferences like the plague, but even sending an email was problematic: "yeah, this needs to go to A in Malaysia. God forbid that it then needs to go to B in USA, and then to C in Europe, because that's two whole days until you get a reply, minimum". Persuading people to work night shifts didn't quite work, either.)
      - blaser-waffle 7y ago
        > Language can be learned Sure, but that doesn't mean they're communicating in the same way. You've got to learn (or unlearn) cultural aspects, too. Then throw in the timezone difference, and a clear level-of-effort difference aka "case of the fuck-its", and you get a workflow that is entirely different from the local office. We got around the time difference by offshoring in Latin America, who are on the same timezones.
tzs 7y ago
Another option to greatly improve that second scenario for people who can't or don't want WFH is giving the option to work something like 11 AM - 8 PM instead 8 AM - 5 PM, to miss the bad traffic. If that schedule fits in with the life outside of work, it could make that job a lot less frustrating.
- AdrianB1 7y ago
  This is what I did, until HR said people are working too many long hours and decided to close the office earlier. They actually did a cost cut on the electricity and security of the building, but the effect is they pretend to care about the employees and they close the office before the end of the rush hours. Years ago, I was leaving the office at night when the commute was as low as 15 minutes, at rush hour with a car it takes up to 2 hours per direction (11 miles).
BurningFrog 7y ago
So maybe many of the people who love WFH really just hate their commutes. Yet another YIMBY argument in disguise.
- pdimitar 7y ago
  I don't think it's in disguise. Many WFH threads here on HN have people openly saying they dislike the commute and the office atmosphere that prevents them from focusing.
  - loco5niner 7y ago
    Yes to disliking both the commute and especially the loud office atmosphere that prevents focusing.
- blaser-waffle 7y ago
  Yeah, pretty much. 1+ hour of my life that I can't get back that's just getting from point A to point B to generate wealth for someone else. I can generate wealth for someone else at home in my sweatpants just as well thank you very much. Plus the MMM guy calculated that each mile you shave off of your commute saves you like ~700 bucks a year (driving). I haven't owned a car for 3+ years so that's moot to me, but the not-having-a-car cost savings have been fantastic.
PopeDotNinja 7y ago
The thing I dislike about working in an office is that it feels like working remote without any of the benefits. I work with people in different offices, which is basically the same as being remote. Instead of talking directly with people, I ping them on Slack to see if they can talk, which is basically the same as being remote. I go to meetings which all use Zoom to accommodate remote workers, which is the same as being remote. People work from home on some days when I'm in the office, which is the same as being remote. So what's the purpose of going into the office again?! Commuting isn't worth the free snacks in the kitchen area. EDIT: probably the most compelling reason to go into the office is that the company hasn't made working remotely an optimized experience.
- BigJ1211 7y ago
  That's the annoying aspect of using flex-workspots in a completely non-static environment. It doesn't make sense force that if no other teammember works in the same spot. Even then you could argue that it should not be mandatory. I have the option to work remotely and in the office (office is 20 minutes away when there's no traffic), I prefer going into the office when my work requires collabing with a colleague (dev work). But when I'm working on stuff solo I prefer to work from home, as there are no distractions there. I think I get more done in half a day at home than I normally do in a full-day at work.
smokeyfish 7y ago
I am faced with B but I achieve A by driving a motorcycle.
badpun 7y ago
> The office is 5-20 minutes away. There is a good work culture. You have friends at the office. You can easily go home for a quick errand at lunch. WFH wouldn't be as appealing. That's pretty much my situation. On top of that, we have 8-person rooms (as opposed to hangar-like open space) and plenty of bigger and smaller conference/private work rooms for times when you want to isolate yourself. Add excellent coffee (no free food though - this is Europe, free food is not widely adopted here yet). Working in such office is pretty cool and even though I have option to work remotely 100% of the time, I still come to the office 3 or 4 times a week.
- ChuckNorris89 7y ago
  Sounds like heaven. In which country do you work?
  - badpun 7y ago
    Poland. This is mostly luck of the draw though, as the office I work in was voted by some design/architecture experts to be the best office park in the whole metro area. It is definitely not a standard. Before moving there, the company hosted us in a drab place with 20 person rooms and almost none meeting/solitude rooms. It was hellish.
xchaotic 7y ago
"The office is 5-20 minutes away" is unrealistic if you plan on having a family AND a career that involves working in more than one place. Heck even the bad scenario "The office is 1 hour away" is kind of optimistic given how population is distributed. So remote work is the future for most senior/sufficiently advanced knowledge jobs in my view.

toomuchtodo 7y ago

Let me work from home from a low cost of living area, where there is an inexpensive coworking space where I can work with others and have camaraderie, but also build a professional network (getting hired is who you know more than what you know). My coworking space might even have some gym equipment and showers for during lunch, as well as free parking, but also be close enough I could ride a bike if I was feeling ambitious. If my gig doesn't work out, because I work with others from other orgs, I can find a gig elsewhere rapidly that also supports remote work (or pickup freelance work). WFH is a misnomer, a poor term. People want flexibility, so give them flexibility. "Work where you want, when you want, as long as the work gets done." This is what I do today. I eat lunch with my wife and kids, and I am always home for breakfast and dinner, but I have space to focus on work (it is crucial IMHO to separate your work and home spaces, based on six years of remote work) and an area to have meetings if needed. There is no reason this model can't scale up; less WeWork, more Mr Money Mustache's coworking space [1]. Some travel might be required occasionally, but I've found all remote roles and orgs experience this; it's the entry ticket for having an amazingly higher quality of life compared to an "on site" role. Alternatively, I know people who work 8-9 hours in an office complex with 100 mile round trip commutes. Hard pass. You want help building a coworking space? I will help you build a coworking space. This is the future of work. [1] https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/hq/ https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/hq/

libraryatnight 7y ago

This matters so much. I am a strong advocate for WFH. When I worked an hour and change away from the office, and I went WFH I felt so much better about life. Suddenly, when work ended, I was just off. No commute to frustrate me. I'd walk away from my desk, and start dinner then hit the gym. On lunches I took walks. It was glorious. I did however start to fatigue as time went on. I was wound up at the end of the day while my wife was ready to wind down because some days I just felt like I'd been isolated all day. Even with walks and going to the gym in evenings. A year or so ago we moved 20 minutes from my office. Some stuff happened with management etc that they wanted people to at least come in a couple days if possible. So I did. Being only 20 minutes away I didn't mind it as much. I had also been migrated to a new team that I really got along with. We lunch together, we shoot the shit if things are chill, I get pulled in on more interesting projects because I'm right there and if I hear someone talking about something I know I'd be helpful on I chime in "Hey, I can help with that" - things I'd have missed out on getting to do if I were at home waiting for someone to send me a Jira ticket or mention it during morning standup. I also have more visibility with our VPs and directors. Anyway, IMO, WFH is fantastic - especially when you live far away - but some office face time is also great. Good for people, good for careers. I feel incredibly fortunate to have stumbled into a position where I have the option to WFH, but also enjoy 3 or 4 days in the office.

Ericson2314 7y ago
Everyone being in small coop they live < 30 minutes away from that voluntarily joins and leaves larger organizations (and not in some bullshit primordial john locke way) should be the goal almost everyone can get behind. WFH is right that autonomy is good (being away from a boss) and commutes are bad, but denying the social nature of our species when work (for better or worse) consumes so much time is ludicrous.
- raducu 7y ago
  I absolutely agree on the 30 minutes commute. I used to have that, my office changed location to 1h commute and the 2 days of wfh still mean more commute time than no wfh previously. I've had 50minutes commute before, but it was just one uninterrupted subway ride which meant I could follow some online courses, but 1h of commute that involves 2x 10 minutes walks and 2 subway changes, its just hell. I feel that the bank just had to let people with 2 wfh days, lest people quit en mass.
SuoDuanDao 7y ago
I've been thinking about creative ways around this - do you have any guess how the dynamic would change if everyone in a remote-first team had an hour lunch they all took in the same minecraft server (or something)? I feel like that would give a lot of time for people to talk shop in the way you're describing, but I've never heard of it being implemented.
- blaser-waffle 7y ago
  Great in spirit, but IMO it would feel like another mandatory "fun" activity, just another obligation. It's not something that can be implemented but something that evolves. I think the key is to create lacunae in the office that allow the culture to form. Watercoolers or smoke breaks or 100% informal happy hour beers, etc. Once leadership makes it "a thing" it loses its dynamic.
  - SuoDuanDao 7y ago

Ericson2314 7y ago

Yeah 95% < 20 minute public transportation for me. Very little interest in working from home.

mrfusion 7y ago

This is absolutely the issue! I wish companies would consider small satellite offices.

darepublic 7y ago

Yes the commute is incredibly draining

dahfizz 7y ago

Sure. In the absolute worst case, WFH is better. That doesn't really tell us anything. The average commute is 26.9 minutes, and that is heavily skewed by metropolitan areas. Some data here[1]. Now let's consider the worst case WFH scenario: you're paid less, promotions are less frequent, there is less comradery among your team, you feel lonely because you spent your whole workday alone. You get the point. Obviously, the best case scenario is to allow workers to decide what they want to do. Picking the form of work that fits your personality, your career, your home life, your values, etc and then trying to force that on 300+ million people is absurd. The good news is that a substantial amount of people do get to choose[2]. [1] https://www.census.gov/library/visualizations/interactive/work-travel-time.html https://www.census.gov/library/visualizations/interactive/wo... [2] https://news.gallup.com/businessjournal/206033/america-coming-workplace-home-alone.aspx?utm_source=link_wwwv9&utm_campaign=item_236222&utm_medium=copy https://news.gallup.com/businessjournal/206033/america-comin...

ntsplnkv2 7y ago
This is a straw-man - I didn't propose the worst case. There are many cases which are far worse. So already that is, on average, 1 hour lost per commuting. A huge portion would have commutes worse than that. That data would always be skewed by metro areas - that is where most people live, and where housing would force people to take long commutes. > Now let's consider the worst case WFH scenario: you're paid less, promotions are less frequent, there is less comradery among your team, you feel lonely because you spent your whole workday alone. You get the point. Why would you argue this, if in the very first sentence of your reply, you stated the worst case "doesn't really tell us anything?" Back to the straw-man point - no one is suggesting that anyone be forced to do anything. Just pointing out why many would like an option to WFH whereas others may not. I agree overall that more choice and flexibility is good.
- tomatocracy 7y ago
  I think it's a mistake to view all commuting time as "lost". For example, my commute is about 40 minutes door to door. But I walk to work and listen to podcasts as I go so I'm getting some light exercise and catching up on things I want to listen to. If I didn't do these as part of my commute, I'd have to find other time to do them. I also find it helpful mentally to have a "transition" time between home and work to get ready for my day or wind down after work when things are getting more stressful, and I've heard others say the same. Friends who commute to work on the train use the time to read books or sleep. Again, if they didn't do these things then, they'd need to find some other time to do them so the actual amount of lost time is pretty small.

SkyPuncher 7y ago

Also, some flexibility to WFH is nice. A friend and I are starting to do "workcations" several times per year (he typically works in office, I work 100% remotely). We go somewhere, work our during the day then go do something in the evenings - typically skiing or mountain biking. It's an amazing setup. We both typically get more done at work, because we're focused and wanting to get to our evening activity. 4 hours of skiing or biking in the evening is more than enough (especially when we do it 8 days straight). That is one perk, I will never give up. Working on a 100% remote team has made me care about vacation days much less. Instead of taking a 3 to 4 day trip somewhere, I'll simply take a full week and work during the day (possibly still taking some time off.)

rexarex 7y ago
Where are you finding all the good night skiing?
- mattio 7y ago
  Brighton, UT has some night time skiing (I think until 9 pm).
- loco5niner 7y ago
  Mt Hood is about 1.5 hours outside of Portland, OR and has good night skiing.
- rjsw 7y ago
  I have done night skiing when I worked in Detroit.
- SkyPuncher 7y ago
  My wife and I moved to Wausau, WI for her residency. Granite Peak is pretty much in our backyard. It's a midwest "mountain" but it does the job. Extremely nice to get out for an hour after work. Many of the midwest hills near major cities have night skiing nearly every day of the week. Steamboat is probably the most well known "big resort".
Plyphon_ 7y ago

manigandham 7y ago

People can do both. Our last startup had a small permanent HQ, flexible WFH, and a Regus subscription. All of our employees loved being able to WRF or get an office wherever they needed, especially sales who could meet in a local space close to their meetings for that day.

Spooky23 7y ago

Consider that instead of paying a big metro salary, your employer will do what defense contractors do... pay 120% of the median salary in Nowhereville.

jjoonathan 7y ago
The defense contractor can't offshore your job. Once we normalize WFH, give it a decade and SWE salaries will be 120% of India, not 120% of Nowhereville.
- MAGZine 7y ago
  There are still significant challenges wrt workplace culture, meeting times, organizational setup (how work is actually synchronized between timezones/handed off), and, most importantly, language. That said, a decade is a long time from now.
  - Piskvorrr 7y ago
    Language can be learned; but working with an European/US West/Malaysian team was a nightmare, because there's no way to schedule anything in everyone's daytime, and the resulting latency has horrible knock-on effects. Everything else can be changed, but the rotation of the Earth is...sort of non-negotiable. (Mind you, we avoided actual teleconferences like the plague, but even sending an email was problematic: "yeah, this needs to go to A in Malaysia. God forbid that it then needs to go to B in USA, and then to C in Europe, because that's two whole days until you get a reply, minimum". Persuading people to work night shifts didn't quite work, either.)
    - blaser-waffle 7y ago
      > Language can be learned Sure, but that doesn't mean they're communicating in the same way. You've got to learn (or unlearn) cultural aspects, too. Then throw in the timezone difference, and a clear level-of-effort difference aka "case of the fuck-its", and you get a workflow that is entirely different from the local office. We got around the time difference by offshoring in Latin America, who are on the same timezones.

tzs 7y ago

Another option to greatly improve that second scenario for people who can't or don't want WFH is giving the option to work something like 11 AM - 8 PM instead 8 AM - 5 PM, to miss the bad traffic. If that schedule fits in with the life outside of work, it could make that job a lot less frustrating.

AdrianB1 7y ago
This is what I did, until HR said people are working too many long hours and decided to close the office earlier. They actually did a cost cut on the electricity and security of the building, but the effect is they pretend to care about the employees and they close the office before the end of the rush hours. Years ago, I was leaving the office at night when the commute was as low as 15 minutes, at rush hour with a car it takes up to 2 hours per direction (11 miles).

BurningFrog 7y ago

So maybe many of the people who love WFH really just hate their commutes. Yet another YIMBY argument in disguise.

pdimitar 7y ago
I don't think it's in disguise. Many WFH threads here on HN have people openly saying they dislike the commute and the office atmosphere that prevents them from focusing.
- loco5niner 7y ago
  Yes to disliking both the commute and especially the loud office atmosphere that prevents focusing.
blaser-waffle 7y ago
Yeah, pretty much. 1+ hour of my life that I can't get back that's just getting from point A to point B to generate wealth for someone else. I can generate wealth for someone else at home in my sweatpants just as well thank you very much. Plus the MMM guy calculated that each mile you shave off of your commute saves you like ~700 bucks a year (driving). I haven't owned a car for 3+ years so that's moot to me, but the not-having-a-car cost savings have been fantastic.

PopeDotNinja 7y ago

The thing I dislike about working in an office is that it feels like working remote without any of the benefits. I work with people in different offices, which is basically the same as being remote. Instead of talking directly with people, I ping them on Slack to see if they can talk, which is basically the same as being remote. I go to meetings which all use Zoom to accommodate remote workers, which is the same as being remote. People work from home on some days when I'm in the office, which is the same as being remote. So what's the purpose of going into the office again?! Commuting isn't worth the free snacks in the kitchen area. EDIT: probably the most compelling reason to go into the office is that the company hasn't made working remotely an optimized experience.

BigJ1211 7y ago
That's the annoying aspect of using flex-workspots in a completely non-static environment. It doesn't make sense force that if no other teammember works in the same spot. Even then you could argue that it should not be mandatory. I have the option to work remotely and in the office (office is 20 minutes away when there's no traffic), I prefer going into the office when my work requires collabing with a colleague (dev work). But when I'm working on stuff solo I prefer to work from home, as there are no distractions there. I think I get more done in half a day at home than I normally do in a full-day at work.

smokeyfish 7y ago

I am faced with B but I achieve A by driving a motorcycle.

badpun 7y ago

> The office is 5-20 minutes away. There is a good work culture. You have friends at the office. You can easily go home for a quick errand at lunch. WFH wouldn't be as appealing. That's pretty much my situation. On top of that, we have 8-person rooms (as opposed to hangar-like open space) and plenty of bigger and smaller conference/private work rooms for times when you want to isolate yourself. Add excellent coffee (no free food though - this is Europe, free food is not widely adopted here yet). Working in such office is pretty cool and even though I have option to work remotely 100% of the time, I still come to the office 3 or 4 times a week.

ChuckNorris89 7y ago
Sounds like heaven. In which country do you work?
- badpun 7y ago
  Poland. This is mostly luck of the draw though, as the office I work in was voted by some design/architecture experts to be the best office park in the whole metro area. It is definitely not a standard. Before moving there, the company hosted us in a drab place with 20 person rooms and almost none meeting/solitude rooms. It was hellish.

xchaotic 7y ago

"The office is 5-20 minutes away" is unrealistic if you plan on having a family AND a career that involves working in more than one place. Heck even the bad scenario "The office is 1 hour away" is kind of optimistic given how population is distributed. So remote work is the future for most senior/sufficiently advanced knowledge jobs in my view.