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Maybe before a surgery, gather all of the hospital staff who are going to attend, and record a video while saying "I do not consent to working with anyone from

Maybe before a surgery, gather all of the hospital staff who are going to attend, and record a video while saying "I do not consent to working with anyone from out of network. If you are an out of network physician, I do not consent to be your patient." That ought to be interesting in court if they bill you. Really, the onus of responsibility is between your insurance company and the hospital (i.e. paying and billing party). If they fail, it needs to be something resolved between them. Because that's their fucking job.

Ididntdothis 7y ago
You clearly haven't dealt with these guys. The hospital can charge whatever it feels like and the insurance pays whatever it feels like. And the patient sits in the middle and has to figure it out.
- craftinator 7y ago
  I have dealt with them, once, and I got the pokey end of the stick. I honestly don't know what would work, but I think operating on someone who has specified that they don't consent is kinda the definition of criminal; I think Mayhem would be the official charge.
  - Ididntdothis 7y ago
    You would think that repeatedly charging people for procedures that never have been performed would also be viewed as criminal but they get away with it all the time.
anigbrowl 7y ago
Look up a legal concept called quantum meruit - you can be on the hook for things you didn't consent, on the grounds that your needs were not foreseeable and a reasonable person would have consented if they were conscious at the time. I am of course over-simplifying but HN isn't the place for a long discourse on medical litigation strategies.
- craftinator 7y ago
  I am familiar with the concept (still think it's insane though; I value my freedom of choice more than my well being). I came up with this idea because it records me expressly refusing consent to the doctors if they are not in network. If they still operate, and are not in network, I'll see them in court with video evidence of malpractice and mayhem. I'm sure in the US legal system this has a low probability of success, but hey, maybe I can crucify them on the news for it.
dboreham 7y ago
In my family we had a situation like this (slightly different issue: whether or not a certain procedure was covered). The hospital had the insurance company RECORDED ON A PHONE CALL stating the procedure was covered. They still refused to pay. Also interesting that the hospital apparently routinely records their calls to insurance companies.. And no, the onus isn't on the hospital. They want their pound of flesh even though they assumed you the procedure was covered on the basis of their staff calling your insurance company.

Ididntdothis 7y ago

You clearly haven't dealt with these guys. The hospital can charge whatever it feels like and the insurance pays whatever it feels like. And the patient sits in the middle and has to figure it out.

craftinator 7y ago
I have dealt with them, once, and I got the pokey end of the stick. I honestly don't know what would work, but I think operating on someone who has specified that they don't consent is kinda the definition of criminal; I think Mayhem would be the official charge.
- Ididntdothis 7y ago
  You would think that repeatedly charging people for procedures that never have been performed would also be viewed as criminal but they get away with it all the time.

anigbrowl 7y ago

Look up a legal concept called quantum meruit - you can be on the hook for things you didn't consent, on the grounds that your needs were not foreseeable and a reasonable person would have consented if they were conscious at the time. I am of course over-simplifying but HN isn't the place for a long discourse on medical litigation strategies.

craftinator 7y ago
I am familiar with the concept (still think it's insane though; I value my freedom of choice more than my well being). I came up with this idea because it records me expressly refusing consent to the doctors if they are not in network. If they still operate, and are not in network, I'll see them in court with video evidence of malpractice and mayhem. I'm sure in the US legal system this has a low probability of success, but hey, maybe I can crucify them on the news for it.

dboreham 7y ago

In my family we had a situation like this (slightly different issue: whether or not a certain procedure was covered). The hospital had the insurance company RECORDED ON A PHONE CALL stating the procedure was covered. They still refused to pay. Also interesting that the hospital apparently routinely records their calls to insurance companies.. And no, the onus isn't on the hospital. They want their pound of flesh even though they assumed you the procedure was covered on the basis of their staff calling your insurance company.