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Allende did the same in Chile with the copper mines and CIA delivered the same medicine in kind. Chile's story is a strange duality of murder and relative econ

Allende did the same in Chile with the copper mines and CIA delivered the same medicine in kind. Chile's story is a strange duality of murder and relative economic prosperity. It is extremely difficult to say whether it was "worth it". But, the most important thing is that we say it happened, just like you did.

dntbnmpls 7y ago
Don't forget bolivia last year. The first native american president got ousted by a international bankers/cia led coup. And of course, the coming overthrow of venezuela in the coming months led by the same culprits.
- jessaustin 7y ago
  Happily, it seems their efforts have failed in Venezuela, in vaguely humorous fashion. Juan Guaidó no longer holds any elected office, although he has enjoyed the hundreds of millions of dollars he has received from CIA. (USA taxpayers will put up with literally anything.) There was just a hung jury on the embassy protectors persecution. Hausmann can't figure out whether he is a professor or an IDB rep. Good times! I still hold out some hope for Bolivia. Of course it's tragic that the new "Christian" coup government has harmed so many indigenous people. In doing so, however, they may have overplayed their hands. Indigenous and unionists aren't knuckling under. There are some inland areas the police and military no longer dare to tread. The coup government that CIA picked out in Bolivia are nearly as hapless as Guaidó and his gang. It will be interesting to see whether Bolivia appears on the popular news in USA once in 2020...
  - ErneX 7y ago
    Evo had a parallel election office set up to manipulate the results of the election. And before you link the recent "MIT study", yeah please don't. That was paid by Mark Weisbrot, a Hugo Chavez paid shill. The level of ruin the bolivarian revolution has brought to my country with the help of Cuba is just appalling. At this point we need all the help available, it's been 20 years already of mismanagement and corruption at levels never before seen in the region.
    - bosswipe 7y ago
      Bolivia's GDP has more than doubled in that time period.
  - dntbnmpls 7y ago
    > Happily, it seems their efforts have failed in Venezuela, in vaguely humorous fashion I think you are underestimating the international bankers' power and resolve. Guaido was a special guest at the state of the union address and both parties along with trump praised him and gave him a standing ovation. Something like that doesn't happen unless a coup in venezuela is pre-ordianed. It also shows that politics and the divisive theatrics are just for show. They are distractions to dupe the american people. Both parties and trump serve the same international banking masters, not the american people. > It will be interesting to see whether Bolivia appears on the popular news in USA once in 2020... It won't. What's interesting is the sudden rise of the pro-coup messaging on social media and of the course the odd downvoting of comments pointing out the coups. I guess the bankers' weren't happy just buying nytimes op-eds. Now they are trying to buy social media influence. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/01/opinion/contributors/venezuela-us-hands-off-joanna-hausmann.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/01/opinion/contributors/vene... Joanna Hausmann is a daughter of a "venezuelan" banker who got ousted by venezuelans. She is a youtuber "comedian" and I guess that is good enough to get an op-ed piece on the nytimes about a major geo-politic issue. But then again, the nytimes was created by a banker...
    - jessaustin 7y ago
      Sure, the coup is preordained, but it has been for so long it's starting to smell a bit stale. Gargamel has been hanging around for over a year now. I always suspected he was the sort of loser one appoints when one sort of wants the whole project to fizzle out ignominiously. What's the old saw? Something about "B-level people hire C-level people"? The elected government of Venezuela has been careful to let Guaidó run amok without arresting him or hampering his travel. Now that his erstwhile allies have realized he isn't going to an martyr anytime soon, they're less interested. CIA themselves are on shakier ground than they used to be. They expected to be ordering Pres. Pence around by now. Now the "grown-up" Democrats have "chosen" Biden (as I predicted in 2017), with whom Trump will play as a cat torments a mouse. Say what you will about his speed habit, at least the Cheeto isn't already sundowning halfway through the afternoon. After he wins this year, Trump will be far more interested in shuttering CIA than in tolerating their further misadventures abroad. Above, I was actually referring to Hausmann père, not Hausmann fille. The Hausmann (what a traditional Venezuelan name!) family run sort of a low-rent one-stop yes-we'll-take-black-budget-funds shop. Prof. Hausmann is at the K-school, which I guess explains why he didn't actually stop working for Guaidó when he promised Harvard administration he would. He's hoping to land at CFR...
cbHXBY1D 7y ago
The Pinochet "economic miracle" is largely debunked at this point. Naomi Klein has covered this topic extensively in her book, The Shock Doctrine. Here's a relevant passage from her book: “The only thing that protected Chile from complete economic collapse in the early eighties was that Pinochet had never privatized Codelco, the state copper mine company nationalized by Allende. That one company generated 85 percent of Chile’s export revenues, which meant that when the financial bubble burst, the state still had a steady source of fundsâ€¦. By 1988, when the economy had stabilized and was growing rapidly, 45 percent of the population had fallen below the poverty line. The richest 10 percent of Chileans, however, had seen their incomes increase by 83 percent. Even in 2007, Chile remained one of the most unequal societies in the world—out of 123 countries in which the United Nations tracks inequality, Chile ranked 116th, making it the eighth most unequal country on the list.” You can read her go deeper into this subject in her 2008 blog post here: https://naomiklein.org/response-attacks/ https://naomiklein.org/response-attacks/ The economy under Pinochet was actually quite mediocre: "By the end of the dictatorship, Chile's average real per capita GDP had grown by only 1.6% per year, a result very close to economic stagnation; 18% of the population was unemployed and 45% below the poverty line. In 1990, Chile’s average GDP per capita, calculated on the basis of purchasing power parity, was only US $4,590, lower than Brazil’s, which at that time, after the “lost decade” of the 1980s, was $6,680. To define this as a "success" is, to say the least, intellectual impudence, if not contemptuous ideological propaganda." Taken from here: https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/democraciaabierta/myths-about-pinochets-chile-persist-brazil-today/ https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/democraciaabierta/myths-abo...
- nickik 7y ago
  > Naomi Klein has covered this topic extensively in her book, The Shock Doctrine. Naomi Klein is a incredibly left wing journalist who's conclusion had all already been made before she did the research. I would argue that much of her book is incredibly badly research and bordering on straight up conspiracy theory nonsense. Her book is absolutely not up to any standard of economic or any social science resource. It is true that Pinochet did not produce some kind of economic miracle. That part is mostly correct. However one can also argue that the alternative path Allende wanted to go down was incredibly unlike to produce even those results. Because of how Pinochet was was removed, helped Chile on a different path that was good for it, even if many people still don't like it. All that said, I'm against US intervention in other countries.

dntbnmpls 7y ago

Don't forget bolivia last year. The first native american president got ousted by a international bankers/cia led coup. And of course, the coming overthrow of venezuela in the coming months led by the same culprits.

jessaustin 7y ago
Happily, it seems their efforts have failed in Venezuela, in vaguely humorous fashion. Juan Guaidó no longer holds any elected office, although he has enjoyed the hundreds of millions of dollars he has received from CIA. (USA taxpayers will put up with literally anything.) There was just a hung jury on the embassy protectors persecution. Hausmann can't figure out whether he is a professor or an IDB rep. Good times! I still hold out some hope for Bolivia. Of course it's tragic that the new "Christian" coup government has harmed so many indigenous people. In doing so, however, they may have overplayed their hands. Indigenous and unionists aren't knuckling under. There are some inland areas the police and military no longer dare to tread. The coup government that CIA picked out in Bolivia are nearly as hapless as Guaidó and his gang. It will be interesting to see whether Bolivia appears on the popular news in USA once in 2020...
- ErneX 7y ago
  Evo had a parallel election office set up to manipulate the results of the election. And before you link the recent "MIT study", yeah please don't. That was paid by Mark Weisbrot, a Hugo Chavez paid shill. The level of ruin the bolivarian revolution has brought to my country with the help of Cuba is just appalling. At this point we need all the help available, it's been 20 years already of mismanagement and corruption at levels never before seen in the region.
  - bosswipe 7y ago
    Bolivia's GDP has more than doubled in that time period.
- dntbnmpls 7y ago
  > Happily, it seems their efforts have failed in Venezuela, in vaguely humorous fashion I think you are underestimating the international bankers' power and resolve. Guaido was a special guest at the state of the union address and both parties along with trump praised him and gave him a standing ovation. Something like that doesn't happen unless a coup in venezuela is pre-ordianed. It also shows that politics and the divisive theatrics are just for show. They are distractions to dupe the american people. Both parties and trump serve the same international banking masters, not the american people. > It will be interesting to see whether Bolivia appears on the popular news in USA once in 2020... It won't. What's interesting is the sudden rise of the pro-coup messaging on social media and of the course the odd downvoting of comments pointing out the coups. I guess the bankers' weren't happy just buying nytimes op-eds. Now they are trying to buy social media influence. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/01/opinion/contributors/venezuela-us-hands-off-joanna-hausmann.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/01/opinion/contributors/vene... Joanna Hausmann is a daughter of a "venezuelan" banker who got ousted by venezuelans. She is a youtuber "comedian" and I guess that is good enough to get an op-ed piece on the nytimes about a major geo-politic issue. But then again, the nytimes was created by a banker...
  - jessaustin 7y ago
    Sure, the coup is preordained, but it has been for so long it's starting to smell a bit stale. Gargamel has been hanging around for over a year now. I always suspected he was the sort of loser one appoints when one sort of wants the whole project to fizzle out ignominiously. What's the old saw? Something about "B-level people hire C-level people"? The elected government of Venezuela has been careful to let Guaidó run amok without arresting him or hampering his travel. Now that his erstwhile allies have realized he isn't going to an martyr anytime soon, they're less interested. CIA themselves are on shakier ground than they used to be. They expected to be ordering Pres. Pence around by now. Now the "grown-up" Democrats have "chosen" Biden (as I predicted in 2017), with whom Trump will play as a cat torments a mouse. Say what you will about his speed habit, at least the Cheeto isn't already sundowning halfway through the afternoon. After he wins this year, Trump will be far more interested in shuttering CIA than in tolerating their further misadventures abroad. Above, I was actually referring to Hausmann père, not Hausmann fille. The Hausmann (what a traditional Venezuelan name!) family run sort of a low-rent one-stop yes-we'll-take-black-budget-funds shop. Prof. Hausmann is at the K-school, which I guess explains why he didn't actually stop working for Guaidó when he promised Harvard administration he would. He's hoping to land at CFR...

cbHXBY1D 7y ago

The Pinochet "economic miracle" is largely debunked at this point. Naomi Klein has covered this topic extensively in her book, The Shock Doctrine. Here's a relevant passage from her book: “The only thing that protected Chile from complete economic collapse in the early eighties was that Pinochet had never privatized Codelco, the state copper mine company nationalized by Allende. That one company generated 85 percent of Chile’s export revenues, which meant that when the financial bubble burst, the state still had a steady source of fundsâ€¦. By 1988, when the economy had stabilized and was growing rapidly, 45 percent of the population had fallen below the poverty line. The richest 10 percent of Chileans, however, had seen their incomes increase by 83 percent. Even in 2007, Chile remained one of the most unequal societies in the world—out of 123 countries in which the United Nations tracks inequality, Chile ranked 116th, making it the eighth most unequal country on the list.” You can read her go deeper into this subject in her 2008 blog post here: https://naomiklein.org/response-attacks/ https://naomiklein.org/response-attacks/ The economy under Pinochet was actually quite mediocre: "By the end of the dictatorship, Chile's average real per capita GDP had grown by only 1.6% per year, a result very close to economic stagnation; 18% of the population was unemployed and 45% below the poverty line. In 1990, Chile’s average GDP per capita, calculated on the basis of purchasing power parity, was only US $4,590, lower than Brazil’s, which at that time, after the “lost decade” of the 1980s, was $6,680. To define this as a "success" is, to say the least, intellectual impudence, if not contemptuous ideological propaganda." Taken from here: https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/democraciaabierta/myths-about-pinochets-chile-persist-brazil-today/ https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/democraciaabierta/myths-abo...

nickik 7y ago
> Naomi Klein has covered this topic extensively in her book, The Shock Doctrine. Naomi Klein is a incredibly left wing journalist who's conclusion had all already been made before she did the research. I would argue that much of her book is incredibly badly research and bordering on straight up conspiracy theory nonsense. Her book is absolutely not up to any standard of economic or any social science resource. It is true that Pinochet did not produce some kind of economic miracle. That part is mostly correct. However one can also argue that the alternative path Allende wanted to go down was incredibly unlike to produce even those results. Because of how Pinochet was was removed, helped Chile on a different path that was good for it, even if many people still don't like it. All that said, I'm against US intervention in other countries.