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> But Gmail showed us that web 'apps' are useful. Gmail is terrible. It's slow and most people prefer the static html version.

hombre_fatal 7y ago
> It's slow and most people prefer the static html version. The only people I've ever heard talk about the static html version are a few HNers. I'd wager 99% of people don't care, don't mind their email client's first load being slow (they just keep it open in a tab anyways), and don't even know about the static html version.
- movedx 7y ago
  > The only people I've ever heard talk about the static html version are a few HNers. I'd wager 99% of people don't care, don't mind their email client's first load being slow (they just keep it open in a tab anyways), and don't even know about the static html version. Are you claiming that because people are ignorant of an option that is clearly better for them, the option is redundant? So if people don't care about something, it's not better by definition of that fact?
  - ymolodtsov 7y ago
    Exactly zero everyday people switch to HTML-version. I’ve never seen anyone doing it in the wild. This sub-thread is just peak Hacker News.
    - movedx 7y ago
      > I’ve never seen anyone doing it in the wild. You watch people as they use Gmail? You actively ask them? I guess if YOU haven't seen anyone do it, no one must be doing it.
- karatestomp 7y ago
  Most people know Google’s webapps are slow, they just don’t know how to do anything about it. Or they notice it as worse battery life and fans running constantly and think there’s something wrong with their laptop because they don’t realize a web app can cause that, or even know what a webapp is.
  - joshuamorton 7y ago
    > Most people know Google’s webapps are slow Can you substantiate this with more than just your personal experience? This doesn't match my experience outside of the HN bubble.
    - karatestomp 7y ago
      Of course it's just my personal experience, but almost all of that's with "normies". Teachers (they live in Google webapps), writers (=avoid because terribly slow and input-laggy on low-end hardware, which ought to be all you need if you're trying to make money writing rather than impress people at coffee shops—and anyway it's not a ton better on good hardware), various other non-tech folks. The ones who don't complain about it do complain about its effects on their machines, without realizing that's what's doing it.
- scarface74 7y ago
  I would say that with the rise of mobile, most gmail users are using the Gmail app or their native Mail app.
satya71 7y ago
Somehow everyone I know is happy with GMail and find a full-featured email client incomprehensible. I can't stand GMail's slow UI.
- spectramax 7y ago
  Try FastMail. Its beautiful and refreshing. "Old school" in everyway. If anyone from FastMail is reading this - do not change your design or UI framework...like ever. The moment you start slowing things down with animations and bloat, that's a slippery slope...
- apple4ever 7y ago
  I don’t understand how anybody can like gmail’s interface. It’s so convoluted and unintuitive.
  - sfifs 7y ago
    Many people say the same about the traditional Outlook style clients. Maybe it's just a matter of what people are used to and nothing logical?
  - tiborsaas 7y ago
    Quite the opposite, it does its job pretty well for me. It has good keyboard shortcut support, and the UI is only lagging if I go into 80-100 long email threads otherwise pretty good. What's unintuitive about a list of emails and few simple features? You also bog my mind :)
    - apple4ever 7y ago
      I don't like how it is formatted for starters. Also the reply button is impossible to find- since its not at the time like it logically should be. Reply all and other options are hidden instead of being exposed. When clicking on reply, it takes me to the bottom, away from the content so its impossible to read and response. It also doesn't have proper mailboxes, and rules are impossible to make. I do not like it at all.
warent 7y ago
As much as I advocate for web apps, sadly I have to agree with this, gmail is maybe one of the worst examples to use. Especially once they launched the new experience, the performance has been god awful. And frankly thats part of the reason I refuse to use Angular if the company that designed it cant even optimize it properly.
firecall 7y ago
You've clearly not had to work in a corporate environment on an old PC with a locked down copy of Outlook... Gawd.. now that's terrible. But yeah... I don't agree Gmail is terrible, but I'd like it to be better. Ive been on a few months after it launched, and got a service that's been reliable and stable for that long, I have to give it a lot of credit!
- airstrike 7y ago
  Outlook 2010 is fantastic
  - monkpit 7y ago
    Outlook’s search function is decidedly not fantastic.
    - airstrike 7y ago
      The trick is to never sort e-mails into folders... just leave everything in your Inbox and let it index it. I know it sounds terrible, but I have 25k e-mails in my inbox (I've kept all since 2018-01-01) and I can search and sort in milliseconds

hombre_fatal 7y ago

> It's slow and most people prefer the static html version. The only people I've ever heard talk about the static html version are a few HNers. I'd wager 99% of people don't care, don't mind their email client's first load being slow (they just keep it open in a tab anyways), and don't even know about the static html version.

movedx 7y ago
> The only people I've ever heard talk about the static html version are a few HNers. I'd wager 99% of people don't care, don't mind their email client's first load being slow (they just keep it open in a tab anyways), and don't even know about the static html version. Are you claiming that because people are ignorant of an option that is clearly better for them, the option is redundant? So if people don't care about something, it's not better by definition of that fact?
- ymolodtsov 7y ago
  Exactly zero everyday people switch to HTML-version. I’ve never seen anyone doing it in the wild. This sub-thread is just peak Hacker News.
  - movedx 7y ago
    > I’ve never seen anyone doing it in the wild. You watch people as they use Gmail? You actively ask them? I guess if YOU haven't seen anyone do it, no one must be doing it.
karatestomp 7y ago
Most people know Google’s webapps are slow, they just don’t know how to do anything about it. Or they notice it as worse battery life and fans running constantly and think there’s something wrong with their laptop because they don’t realize a web app can cause that, or even know what a webapp is.
- joshuamorton 7y ago
  > Most people know Google’s webapps are slow Can you substantiate this with more than just your personal experience? This doesn't match my experience outside of the HN bubble.
  - karatestomp 7y ago
    Of course it's just my personal experience, but almost all of that's with "normies". Teachers (they live in Google webapps), writers (=avoid because terribly slow and input-laggy on low-end hardware, which ought to be all you need if you're trying to make money writing rather than impress people at coffee shops—and anyway it's not a ton better on good hardware), various other non-tech folks. The ones who don't complain about it do complain about its effects on their machines, without realizing that's what's doing it.
scarface74 7y ago
I would say that with the rise of mobile, most gmail users are using the Gmail app or their native Mail app.

satya71 7y ago

Somehow everyone I know is happy with GMail and find a full-featured email client incomprehensible. I can't stand GMail's slow UI.

spectramax 7y ago
Try FastMail. Its beautiful and refreshing. "Old school" in everyway. If anyone from FastMail is reading this - do not change your design or UI framework...like ever. The moment you start slowing things down with animations and bloat, that's a slippery slope...
apple4ever 7y ago
I don’t understand how anybody can like gmail’s interface. It’s so convoluted and unintuitive.
- sfifs 7y ago
  Many people say the same about the traditional Outlook style clients. Maybe it's just a matter of what people are used to and nothing logical?
- tiborsaas 7y ago
  Quite the opposite, it does its job pretty well for me. It has good keyboard shortcut support, and the UI is only lagging if I go into 80-100 long email threads otherwise pretty good. What's unintuitive about a list of emails and few simple features? You also bog my mind :)
  - apple4ever 7y ago
    I don't like how it is formatted for starters. Also the reply button is impossible to find- since its not at the time like it logically should be. Reply all and other options are hidden instead of being exposed. When clicking on reply, it takes me to the bottom, away from the content so its impossible to read and response. It also doesn't have proper mailboxes, and rules are impossible to make. I do not like it at all.

warent 7y ago

As much as I advocate for web apps, sadly I have to agree with this, gmail is maybe one of the worst examples to use. Especially once they launched the new experience, the performance has been god awful. And frankly thats part of the reason I refuse to use Angular if the company that designed it cant even optimize it properly.

firecall 7y ago

You've clearly not had to work in a corporate environment on an old PC with a locked down copy of Outlook... Gawd.. now that's terrible. But yeah... I don't agree Gmail is terrible, but I'd like it to be better. Ive been on a few months after it launched, and got a service that's been reliable and stable for that long, I have to give it a lot of credit!

airstrike 7y ago
Outlook 2010 is fantastic
- monkpit 7y ago
  Outlook’s search function is decidedly not fantastic.
  - airstrike 7y ago
    The trick is to never sort e-mails into folders... just leave everything in your Inbox and let it index it. I know it sounds terrible, but I have 25k e-mails in my inbox (I've kept all since 2018-01-01) and I can search and sort in milliseconds