3 ms·

I think it is hard to argue that 'consent' that a woman gives you while you're her therapist who is giving her MDMA is valid in any sense. MDMA is a wonder dru

I think it is hard to argue that 'consent' that a woman gives you while you're her therapist who is giving her MDMA is valid in any sense. MDMA is a wonder drug and absolutely magical. I have loved using it. But I, for one, behave way differently on it. There is absolutely no way I would consider consent someone gave me while they were on it valid in any sense.

apatters 7y ago
I have no experience with MDMA but this seems like an extreme position. If you have sex with someone without their consent it's considered rape, so this line of thought would imply that everyone who's had sex with a person on MDMA is a rapist. In the eyes of the law people can usually give consent while under the influence of drugs and alcohol (significant exceptions do apply, with the most common one being incapacitation).
- DoreenMichele 7y ago
  Drugs or no drugs, it's illegal for a therapist to have sex with a patient. It's viewed as abusive of their position of power. So the position isn't extreme in the slightest. It's widely agreed upon to the point of being codified into law in a lot of places.
  - apatters 7y ago
    I agree, but I was responding to this point made by my parent: > There is absolutely no way I would consider consent someone gave me while they were on it valid in any sense. Parent does not say anywhere that he/she is a therapist, this is the statement which seems extreme as it would criminalize all sex with people who are under the influence of MDMA.
    - DoreenMichele 7y ago
      That's a personal policy. People are entirely free to set a higher bar for consent for their own sexual encounters than we require legally.
- techybuddha 7y ago
  I think you both are saying the same thing.
- lambdasquirrel 7y ago
  I’d wonder what the lawyers specializing in this sort of thing would say and what sort of debate there’d be around it. Because depending on the context, this is either sensible or insane. Example A. My hypothetical partner and I are bored and we want to spice it up a little so we get some MDMA. Example B. Your graduate advisor is bored, has a party where there’s lots of acid, and, oh, some MDMA too. There’s no way in hell these situations are similar.
- scarejunba 7y ago
  That's a fair point. I think I implicitly meant the combination of factors like "consent they gave me on the drug that didn't have any precursor in pre-drug state and which involves me being sober and them high". If I gave someone the drug and I just sat there sober and they tried to get with me, I'm going to deflect that for sure 100%. It seems wrong to take advantage of that state. It's easy to deflect in a way that leaves it open for talking afterwards. The equality of states and setting thing matters too. People on MDMA love touching and socializing and if we're both on it, we both know what we're going into, so I'm content (in my sober state describing my high) saying I'd let a lot of that happen because it's fun for us. There are things you sort of assume and which you sort of innocuously chat about where you figure out if they're experienced. It's not strictly speaking consensual when you're both on the drug, but you're not wholly absent. Obviously you don't mess with someone's first time on it, you give them a safe way to be happy without escalating interactions. But if they're experienced, then you can both play.

apatters 7y ago

I have no experience with MDMA but this seems like an extreme position. If you have sex with someone without their consent it's considered rape, so this line of thought would imply that everyone who's had sex with a person on MDMA is a rapist. In the eyes of the law people can usually give consent while under the influence of drugs and alcohol (significant exceptions do apply, with the most common one being incapacitation).

DoreenMichele 7y ago
Drugs or no drugs, it's illegal for a therapist to have sex with a patient. It's viewed as abusive of their position of power. So the position isn't extreme in the slightest. It's widely agreed upon to the point of being codified into law in a lot of places.
- apatters 7y ago
  I agree, but I was responding to this point made by my parent: > There is absolutely no way I would consider consent someone gave me while they were on it valid in any sense. Parent does not say anywhere that he/she is a therapist, this is the statement which seems extreme as it would criminalize all sex with people who are under the influence of MDMA.
  - DoreenMichele 7y ago
    That's a personal policy. People are entirely free to set a higher bar for consent for their own sexual encounters than we require legally.
techybuddha 7y ago
I think you both are saying the same thing.
lambdasquirrel 7y ago
I’d wonder what the lawyers specializing in this sort of thing would say and what sort of debate there’d be around it. Because depending on the context, this is either sensible or insane. Example A. My hypothetical partner and I are bored and we want to spice it up a little so we get some MDMA. Example B. Your graduate advisor is bored, has a party where there’s lots of acid, and, oh, some MDMA too. There’s no way in hell these situations are similar.
scarejunba 7y ago
That's a fair point. I think I implicitly meant the combination of factors like "consent they gave me on the drug that didn't have any precursor in pre-drug state and which involves me being sober and them high". If I gave someone the drug and I just sat there sober and they tried to get with me, I'm going to deflect that for sure 100%. It seems wrong to take advantage of that state. It's easy to deflect in a way that leaves it open for talking afterwards. The equality of states and setting thing matters too. People on MDMA love touching and socializing and if we're both on it, we both know what we're going into, so I'm content (in my sober state describing my high) saying I'd let a lot of that happen because it's fun for us. There are things you sort of assume and which you sort of innocuously chat about where you figure out if they're experienced. It's not strictly speaking consensual when you're both on the drug, but you're not wholly absent. Obviously you don't mess with someone's first time on it, you give them a safe way to be happy without escalating interactions. But if they're experienced, then you can both play.