21 ms·
I'm completely stunned that PHP is on the bottom here.
by PonyGumbo 16y ago
I'm completely stunned that PHP is on the bottom here.
- deleted 16y ago[deleted]
- jasonlotito 16y agoOr maybe they don't curse as much?
- deleted 16y ago[deleted]
- jasonlotito 16y agoTrue. Though, I wonder why Ruby programmers are immature and careless? Stereotyping is fun!
- joblessjunkie 16y agoThere is not much PHP on Github. It's the same reason there is no profanity it FORTRAN or COBOL in this graph. The author makes a terrible mistake: he does not normalize the graph relative to the total amount of code in each language. There's a lot of Ruby on Github, which is why you can find plenty of Ruby profanity. The graph is just about useless without this normalization.
- BoppreH 16y agoThe author said he ripped the same number of commits from each language, so it's naturally normalized. The number of different projects ripped, on the other hand, could help skew the results of the unpopular languages.
- saraid216 16y agoThere are maybe 10 to 15 ways the normalization doesn't manage to do what it's supposed to. Certain committers happen to use profanity more, for instance. Commit style and frequency. Tendency of programmers of language X to be acculturated somewhere that dampens their natural tendency to curse when frustrated. For instance, my style of coding means I branch off, commit early and often, with flippant and meaningless messages, and then I squash and rewrite my entire change as a single, formal entity before releasing it for coworker consumption. I curse up a storm in my commit messages, but you won't see any of them unless you look inside my computer before I delete the working branch. This is fun and funny. Nothing about it even starts approaching validity except for one statistic: "210 out of 929857", and even that gets shot down. The entire thing would have been better if he had included "hate" as a curse word.
- chc 16y agoI think you've forgotten what was being discussed, because your objection isn't relevant. The claim in dispute is: "he does not normalize the graph relative to the total amount of code in each language".
- notahacker 16y agoThat's rendered irrelevant by the author using a sample with the same number of commits in each language. Although I think it's fair to say the proportion of beginners and casual projects using source control and Github is probably lower for PHP than, say, Ruby.
- joblessjunkie 16y agoYep, my bad, I did not carefully read the article. :-(
- chc 16y agoMy interpretation is that anyone still working in PHP is long resigned to its frustrations.
- jasonlotito 16y agoWhile it's fun to mock PHP for the uninitiated, it's actually probably something a bit more mundane. Those working on pubic GitHub projects are probably doing so willingly. After all, if you hate PHP and are forced to use it at your day job, do you really want to go home and commit to PHP projects? Probably not. So, what you're seeing are people not merely resigned, but who enjoy working in PHP, for all it's warts. They aren't just resigned.
- chc 16y agoBut that should apply equally to all languages. One would expect the same to be true of, say, Ruby or C++, but PHP's slice of the pie is minuscule by comparison. So your mundane answer is probably correct, but it's answering the wrong question. The question isn't, "Why don't PHP developers swear at their language all the time?" It's actually, "Why do PHP developers swear at their language less than most others?" And I posit that it's because PHP programmers at that level are less likely to be surprised or scandalized by the language's well-known quirks than somebody working with Ruby or C++ (i.e. they are resigned to its frustrations).
- jasonlotito 16y agoGood point. Good question. Honestly, and I don't meant to stereotype here, but I think it's because the quality of PHP developer proportionate to the number of PHP developers on github is higher than in other languages. Granted, their are fewer total. But the reason for this is pretty simple. PHP is not the popular language, so most new developers taking up programming in the past 2-3 years see a different landscape then a decade ago. Github is SourceForge and Ruby is PHP. Poor PHP developers aren't flocking to github. They are still on SourceForge (not suggesting that all SF users are bad). Basically, the PHP developer's on github are probably the more experience developers that have been doing this for a while. On the flip side, most Ruby developer's are still comparatively new to the language. This is a lot of assuming, and I don't mean to disparage anyone. That all being said, while I equated the quality of the programmer with the amount of swearing being done, I fully realize it's not a fair comparison. Granted, this entire thing is based on numbers that, I feel, are fairly meaningless. Finally, what I find more interesting is how HN's quality takes a nose dive when the population is allowed to bash a particular population: in this case, people who enjoy using PHP. Still, good follow up. =)
- phamilton 16y agoA small child doesn't think a crayon is badly designed until he has used a pencil or a pen. Without a frame of reference, a PHP developer has little reason to swear at the code.
- 6ren 16y agoThat's assuming that most profanity is directed at the language. It might be the case, but one may also be annoyed by a codebase, by an algorithm, by a bug, by a co-worker, by the business reason for the commit, or by something totally unrelated. There can also be humourous swearing, and swearing for emphasis (see DHH), neither of which convey annoyance at all. Hypothesis A: PHP projects tend to be smaller and simpler, with fewer interactions with other code/requirements/people, and therefore fewer opportunities for annoyance. Hypothesis B: PHP is actually a very simple and close fit to its use-case, of unambitious webapps, and so often the tool just does its job, and disappears. There's no space to swear at a tool that you don't notice.
- JonnieCache 16y agoThey could be swearing in joy. # This new PHP library is fucking awesome!
- dmoney 16y agoAt what point does a webapp become "ambitious" and not suited for PHP? What about PHP with a framework such as, e.g., Cake? I'm curious because I'm embarking on a project and probably choosing Rails over Cake, but only because the other developer is a Rails guy.
- rbanffy 16y agoI observe lots of groups in this situation. It took me eight years from first contact to first real project in C++ because I learned Smalltalk first. Hadn't I seen Smalltalk before, I would have thought C++ was just fine, instead of the abomination, the gigantic leap backwards it really is, and would happily use it like so many people do. A lot of people love their tools just because they don't know better ones.
- 16y ago
- kunley 16y agoPerhaps they don't write meaningful commit messages?
- arnorhs 16y agoHow is swearing more meaningful than not swearing in a commit message? Perhaps some developers don't like the idea of the entire world seeing them swear at - basically - text.
- kunley 16y agoNaah. My joke - you got it was a joke, right? - was: They don't write meaningful comments at all. Including those with swears, meaning at least something. Joke #2: What would they have to put into commit messages, if you consider so much of PHP code is not written but copypasted? What to write then - "I copypasted it from X"?
- arnorhs 16y agoI didn't get it. But your point being that php code doesn't get commented much is right on.
- sambeau 16y agoPHP is very international - I wonder if it would rank higher if, say, German swearing was counted?
- arnorhs 16y agoThat's the most intellectual point anybody has made in this anti-php thread.
- vault_ 16y agoThe only PHP devs using git are all super professional with the patience of saints?
- spoondan 16y agoGaming companies, start-ups, anyone looking for a "Ninja" or "Rock Star" all seem more likely to tolerate swearing and less likely to be using PHP. Additionally, I'd wager that PHP projects on GitHub tend to get fewer commits from hobbyists and other non-professionals.