4 ms·

Europe is doing quite a lot compared to others, especially China, USA and India.

MrDresden 7y ago
Perhaps, but so much more needs to be done. I am afraid that we as a species wont be able to act together quickly enough to have a real chance of halting the run-away changes that seem to be starting up all over the planet.
- tcd 7y ago
  I think it's already too late - US is withdrawing from the Paris agreement. Australia is in complete denial it seems We need to reduce emissions yesterday and reduce our plastic output considerably. We're not doing anything on a scale big/quick enough to matter. We don't have until 2050 or the targets some governments have set. We need it done by next year, 2021, but that's unlikely to happen. We need new laws enacting tomorrow and to give everyone a big kick up the ass to get their acts together. That's not going to happen, no matter how desperate Greta, Attenborough make it seem.
  - perfunctory 7y ago
    > That's not going to happen, no matter how desperate Greta, Attenborough make it seem. True. Greta alone won't save the climate for us. We need to get afk and go help her.
- perfunctory 7y ago
  > I am afraid that we as a species wont be able to act together quickly enough Let me just point out that we the species also include you. And me. It's up to us.
  - EForEndeavour 7y ago
    While it's true that individual action is a critical part of mitigating climate change, I think OP was referring to the fact that a tiny portion of people control most money and power on earth, with which they could make positive changes at scale and faciliate said individual actions. We need change from individuals, but also from governments and corporations.
    - perfunctory 7y ago
      > but also from governments and corporations Absolutely. And the governments respond to popular pressure. When I say "It's up to us", I mean we should go out, join popular movements and pressure the government.
dntbnmpls 7y ago
Europe is the world's largest source of carbon emissions. Just because europe offshores their emissions to china, etc doesn't make it less so. Where do you think that first world quality of life enjoyed by 800+ million people comes from? Tons of pollution and destruction of the environment. Europe is just the best at hypocritical virtue signaling. Like how great they are at recycling when they just ship their garbage to china. https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-recycling-china-trash-ban-forces-europe-to-confront-its-waste-problem/ https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-recycling-china-trash... Just like how Norway positions itself as pro-environment and anti-fossil fuel nation when they are one of the highest per capita oil producers. But hey, at least you used that oil money to buy a tesla right? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_oil_production https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_oil_produ... I think most of the world is pretty much sick of europe's hypocrisy.
- asutekku 7y ago
  I would like to have a source on the first one, as none of the sources i found do not support your statement in carbon emissions. I really would like to see a source where Europe’s outsources emissions are marked to be the biggest. https://www.ucsusa.org/resources/each-countrys-share-co2-emissions https://www.ucsusa.org/resources/each-countrys-share-co2-emi...
  - dntbnmpls 7y ago
    > as none of the sources i found do not support your statement in carbon emissions. Because carbon emissions are measured at their output. So if european shoe/clothing manufacturers move to china, pollute in china and sell the products back in europe, that pollution would be credited to china when in actuality, the pollution was created for european consumption. The easiest way to tell is by how large the consumer market is. Europe is the largest consumer market in the world. EU + the non-EU european states. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_consumer_markets https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_consumer_marke... Europe is an 800+ million people market with first world living standards. In the US, we probably slightly out-pollute europe on a per capita basis since our standard of living is slightly higher than europe overall, but since europe has 500 million more people than the US, I can safely say that collectively, europe outpollutes every major country/bloc in the world. Do you think the clothes europeans wear, the electronics europeans use, etc all were created by a green energy fairy?
bpfrh 7y ago
Not really, Germany for example, knows the plans they decided on won't work. Austria has afaik still growing co2 emissions. Don't know about other countries but at the moment if feels like europe talks a lot but doesn't do much.
- clarry 7y ago
  https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/15/World_fossil_carbon_dioxide_emissions_six_top_countries_and_confederations.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/15/World_fo... EU stands out as the one line that has been trending down.
- hef19898 7y ago
  Austria might change so, now that the green party is part of the government coalition. Could very well be too little too late, so. Germany is different matter, we are still building new coal plants while making wind more or less impossible in Bavaria. Hope that changes as well, if nobody seriously starts nothing will ever get done.

Perhaps, but so much more needs to be done. I am afraid that we as a species wont be able to act together quickly enough to have a real chance of halting the run-away changes that seem to be starting up all over the planet.

tcd 7y ago
I think it's already too late - US is withdrawing from the Paris agreement. Australia is in complete denial it seems We need to reduce emissions yesterday and reduce our plastic output considerably. We're not doing anything on a scale big/quick enough to matter. We don't have until 2050 or the targets some governments have set. We need it done by next year, 2021, but that's unlikely to happen. We need new laws enacting tomorrow and to give everyone a big kick up the ass to get their acts together. That's not going to happen, no matter how desperate Greta, Attenborough make it seem.
- perfunctory 7y ago
  > That's not going to happen, no matter how desperate Greta, Attenborough make it seem. True. Greta alone won't save the climate for us. We need to get afk and go help her.
perfunctory 7y ago
> I am afraid that we as a species wont be able to act together quickly enough Let me just point out that we the species also include you. And me. It's up to us.
- EForEndeavour 7y ago
  While it's true that individual action is a critical part of mitigating climate change, I think OP was referring to the fact that a tiny portion of people control most money and power on earth, with which they could make positive changes at scale and faciliate said individual actions. We need change from individuals, but also from governments and corporations.
  - perfunctory 7y ago
    > but also from governments and corporations Absolutely. And the governments respond to popular pressure. When I say "It's up to us", I mean we should go out, join popular movements and pressure the government.

dntbnmpls 7y ago

Europe is the world's largest source of carbon emissions. Just because europe offshores their emissions to china, etc doesn't make it less so. Where do you think that first world quality of life enjoyed by 800+ million people comes from? Tons of pollution and destruction of the environment. Europe is just the best at hypocritical virtue signaling. Like how great they are at recycling when they just ship their garbage to china. https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-recycling-china-trash-ban-forces-europe-to-confront-its-waste-problem/ https://www.politico.eu/article/europe-recycling-china-trash... Just like how Norway positions itself as pro-environment and anti-fossil fuel nation when they are one of the highest per capita oil producers. But hey, at least you used that oil money to buy a tesla right? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_oil_production https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_oil_produ... I think most of the world is pretty much sick of europe's hypocrisy.

asutekku 7y ago
I would like to have a source on the first one, as none of the sources i found do not support your statement in carbon emissions. I really would like to see a source where Europe’s outsources emissions are marked to be the biggest. https://www.ucsusa.org/resources/each-countrys-share-co2-emissions https://www.ucsusa.org/resources/each-countrys-share-co2-emi...
- dntbnmpls 7y ago
  > as none of the sources i found do not support your statement in carbon emissions. Because carbon emissions are measured at their output. So if european shoe/clothing manufacturers move to china, pollute in china and sell the products back in europe, that pollution would be credited to china when in actuality, the pollution was created for european consumption. The easiest way to tell is by how large the consumer market is. Europe is the largest consumer market in the world. EU + the non-EU european states. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_consumer_markets https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_consumer_marke... Europe is an 800+ million people market with first world living standards. In the US, we probably slightly out-pollute europe on a per capita basis since our standard of living is slightly higher than europe overall, but since europe has 500 million more people than the US, I can safely say that collectively, europe outpollutes every major country/bloc in the world. Do you think the clothes europeans wear, the electronics europeans use, etc all were created by a green energy fairy?

bpfrh 7y ago

Not really, Germany for example, knows the plans they decided on won't work. Austria has afaik still growing co2 emissions. Don't know about other countries but at the moment if feels like europe talks a lot but doesn't do much.

clarry 7y ago
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/15/World_fossil_carbon_dioxide_emissions_six_top_countries_and_confederations.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/15/World_fo... EU stands out as the one line that has been trending down.
hef19898 7y ago
Austria might change so, now that the green party is part of the government coalition. Could very well be too little too late, so. Germany is different matter, we are still building new coal plants while making wind more or less impossible in Bavaria. Hope that changes as well, if nobody seriously starts nothing will ever get done.