4 ms·

But we don't really develop "cancer" drugs. We develop a drug that treats certain type of pancreatic cancer that give the individuals another 3-6 months to live

But we don't really develop "cancer" drugs. We develop a drug that treats certain type of pancreatic cancer that give the individuals another 3-6 months to live. But curing an infectious disease can give someone another 40 years.

refurb 7y ago
There are several cancer (lymphomas) that were literal death sentences a decade or two ago, but how have a very high cure rate. It's not fair to say we don't develop cancer drugs because some, very difficult to treat cancers, haven't seen as much progress as others.
- dehrmann 7y ago
  Testicular cancer is now very treatable, but before Cisplatin, the prognosis was pretty grim. I guess to grandparent's comment, we absolutely do develop chemotherapy drugs, and many don't just buy you six months, they're life-saving.
  - refurb 7y ago
    I unfortunately can't find it, but there was an interesting chart that showed overall survival in metastatic colorectal cancer. It covered the last 30 years. Each new therapy improved survival by only 6-12 months, but each new drug was more effective than the last. Over those 30 years, the median survival went from 6 months to over 5 years. People shouldn't discount incremental improvements because that's often how medicine progresses.
    - DrScump 7y ago
      Cell type is much more relevant to curability than location.
est31 7y ago
Cancer is an extremely complex disease and we are making real progress on it. Only because we don't discover a powerful medication like antibiotics that eliminates multiple types of the same disease doesn't mean that we aren't making progress.
drocer88 7y ago
This recent drug does better than 3-6 months: Nivolumab . One-Third of Patients With Advanced Melanoma Survive at Least 5 Years After Nivolumab Treatment. (https://www.ascopost.com/issues/may-10-2016/one-third-of-patients-with-advanced-melanoma-survive-at-least-5-years-after-nivolumab-treatment/ https://www.ascopost.com/issues/may-10-2016/one-third-of-pat... Here's another recent success : https://hcp.lutathera.com/ https://hcp.lutathera.com/ --- https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1607427 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1607427 At the data-cutoff date for the primary analysis, the estimated rate of progression-free survival at month 20 was 65.2% (95% confidence interval [CI], 50.0 to 76.8) in the 177Lu-Dotatate group and 10.8% (95% CI, 3.5 to 23.0) in the control group. Lutathera delivers a radioactive molecule to the tumor.
- m0zg 7y ago
  $150K+/yr. OOF. On the positive side, 20 years from now these drugs will be dollar a bucket as generics. Thank god for capitalism.
  - _jal 7y ago
    No, it won't. Look at inulin prices. Or pharma-bro's Daraprim. That's what capitalism does to generics.
    - m0zg 7y ago
      Not really. Regarding insulin, that's what _the lack of capitalism_ does to generics. You can't import insulin into the US, and that's why it's so expensive here. Daraprim wasn't generic until literally 5 days ago: https://www.biospace.com/article/fda-approves-first-generic-for-daraprim-the-drug-martin-shkreli-increased-the-price-of-by-5-000-percent-/ https://www.biospace.com/article/fda-approves-first-generic-...
briandear 7y ago
How much experience do you have in oncology? There are millions of breast cancer survivors that might disagree with you. There is also the false assumption that we haven’t made much progress in infectious diseases when, in fact, we have. Tamiflu was launched in 1999. AIDS drugs are light years ahead of where they were 25 years ago. We have effective vaccines for some of history’s worst killer diseases. Gilead has been working on remdesivir since 2016 for Coronaviruses. Hepatitis C is now curable (also thanks to Gilead.) There is a lot of significant work happening in infectious diseases. However, curing cancer is the holy grail and a pursuit of that is on the same level as pursuing manned space flight. Flying people into space seemed frivolous at the time as well. After all, think of all of the hungry kids would could feed if we redirected Apollo money! However, space flight gave society countless advances that we didn’t foresee at the time. Perhaps we should argue that studying quantum physics is a waste of resources. Or studying astronomy. Or any number of fields where societally-useful breakthroughs are few and far between. It’s ridiculous to imply that developing cancer drugs should be ditched in favor of developing more infectious disease drugs. We can walk and chew gum at the same time: this isn’t guns or butter. If we want to apply pure rationality to drugs: let’s stop cancer drug expenditures so we can save more people from malaria, then we could apply that logic to social programs as well: why bother helping the mentally disabled when instead we could direct those funds towards something that provides more economic value to society? A kid with cerebral palsy isn’t going to contribute as much to society as a healthy kid — so why waste resources on that research? Of course it isn’t a waste when it’s your kid. Following that line of reasoning and we ultimately end up with eugenics and society would become a very nasty place indeed.
Broken_Hippo 7y ago
We do develop "cancer" drugs to a point. That HPV vaccine is preventing an entire group of cancers! But cancer itself is... complicated. There are many different types with many different causes that are complicated by many different things. Breast cancer is not the same as skin cancer, and neither of these are lung cancer. But we do, to an extent, know how to treat things to a point. Sometimes, our best efforts have only resulted in giving folks 3-6 months. And we do cure or prevent some infectious disease. The plague and leprosy, for example, is curable. We have taken leaps and bounds with HIV/Aids - while we can't really cure it, we can give drugs to folks to stop it from being so infectious. But like cancer, "infectious disease" comes in many forms, some being vastly more complicated to "cure" than others. This is why some things, like the common cold and common influenza do not have cures. These are hard problems. And for lack of better words, we've simply not "unlocked" the secret in ways that would be good year after year.

refurb 7y ago

There are several cancer (lymphomas) that were literal death sentences a decade or two ago, but how have a very high cure rate. It's not fair to say we don't develop cancer drugs because some, very difficult to treat cancers, haven't seen as much progress as others.

dehrmann 7y ago
Testicular cancer is now very treatable, but before Cisplatin, the prognosis was pretty grim. I guess to grandparent's comment, we absolutely do develop chemotherapy drugs, and many don't just buy you six months, they're life-saving.
- refurb 7y ago
  I unfortunately can't find it, but there was an interesting chart that showed overall survival in metastatic colorectal cancer. It covered the last 30 years. Each new therapy improved survival by only 6-12 months, but each new drug was more effective than the last. Over those 30 years, the median survival went from 6 months to over 5 years. People shouldn't discount incremental improvements because that's often how medicine progresses.
  - DrScump 7y ago
    Cell type is much more relevant to curability than location.

est31 7y ago

Cancer is an extremely complex disease and we are making real progress on it. Only because we don't discover a powerful medication like antibiotics that eliminates multiple types of the same disease doesn't mean that we aren't making progress.

drocer88 7y ago

This recent drug does better than 3-6 months: Nivolumab . One-Third of Patients With Advanced Melanoma Survive at Least 5 Years After Nivolumab Treatment. (https://www.ascopost.com/issues/may-10-2016/one-third-of-patients-with-advanced-melanoma-survive-at-least-5-years-after-nivolumab-treatment/ https://www.ascopost.com/issues/may-10-2016/one-third-of-pat... Here's another recent success : https://hcp.lutathera.com/ https://hcp.lutathera.com/ --- https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1607427 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1607427 At the data-cutoff date for the primary analysis, the estimated rate of progression-free survival at month 20 was 65.2% (95% confidence interval [CI], 50.0 to 76.8) in the 177Lu-Dotatate group and 10.8% (95% CI, 3.5 to 23.0) in the control group. Lutathera delivers a radioactive molecule to the tumor.

m0zg 7y ago
$150K+/yr. OOF. On the positive side, 20 years from now these drugs will be dollar a bucket as generics. Thank god for capitalism.
- _jal 7y ago
  No, it won't. Look at inulin prices. Or pharma-bro's Daraprim. That's what capitalism does to generics.
  - m0zg 7y ago
    Not really. Regarding insulin, that's what _the lack of capitalism_ does to generics. You can't import insulin into the US, and that's why it's so expensive here. Daraprim wasn't generic until literally 5 days ago: https://www.biospace.com/article/fda-approves-first-generic-for-daraprim-the-drug-martin-shkreli-increased-the-price-of-by-5-000-percent-/ https://www.biospace.com/article/fda-approves-first-generic-...

briandear 7y ago

How much experience do you have in oncology? There are millions of breast cancer survivors that might disagree with you. There is also the false assumption that we haven’t made much progress in infectious diseases when, in fact, we have. Tamiflu was launched in 1999. AIDS drugs are light years ahead of where they were 25 years ago. We have effective vaccines for some of history’s worst killer diseases. Gilead has been working on remdesivir since 2016 for Coronaviruses. Hepatitis C is now curable (also thanks to Gilead.) There is a lot of significant work happening in infectious diseases. However, curing cancer is the holy grail and a pursuit of that is on the same level as pursuing manned space flight. Flying people into space seemed frivolous at the time as well. After all, think of all of the hungry kids would could feed if we redirected Apollo money! However, space flight gave society countless advances that we didn’t foresee at the time. Perhaps we should argue that studying quantum physics is a waste of resources. Or studying astronomy. Or any number of fields where societally-useful breakthroughs are few and far between. It’s ridiculous to imply that developing cancer drugs should be ditched in favor of developing more infectious disease drugs. We can walk and chew gum at the same time: this isn’t guns or butter. If we want to apply pure rationality to drugs: let’s stop cancer drug expenditures so we can save more people from malaria, then we could apply that logic to social programs as well: why bother helping the mentally disabled when instead we could direct those funds towards something that provides more economic value to society? A kid with cerebral palsy isn’t going to contribute as much to society as a healthy kid — so why waste resources on that research? Of course it isn’t a waste when it’s your kid. Following that line of reasoning and we ultimately end up with eugenics and society would become a very nasty place indeed.

Broken_Hippo 7y ago

We do develop "cancer" drugs to a point. That HPV vaccine is preventing an entire group of cancers! But cancer itself is... complicated. There are many different types with many different causes that are complicated by many different things. Breast cancer is not the same as skin cancer, and neither of these are lung cancer. But we do, to an extent, know how to treat things to a point. Sometimes, our best efforts have only resulted in giving folks 3-6 months. And we do cure or prevent some infectious disease. The plague and leprosy, for example, is curable. We have taken leaps and bounds with HIV/Aids - while we can't really cure it, we can give drugs to folks to stop it from being so infectious. But like cancer, "infectious disease" comes in many forms, some being vastly more complicated to "cure" than others. This is why some things, like the common cold and common influenza do not have cures. These are hard problems. And for lack of better words, we've simply not "unlocked" the secret in ways that would be good year after year.