4 ms·

Yes, cars being the biggest problem. If you're broke and you buy a new car, you end up with a lease or something with a big down payment; the other option is y

Yes, cars being the biggest problem. If you're broke and you buy a new car, you end up with a lease or something with a big down payment; the other option is you have a huge finance issue, where you won't finish paying off your car for 7 years after it has 100k+ miles, and now you still owe 5k on a car that's breaking down, with monthly payments of $500/month+. During this time, your rent has likely been raised each of these years. Also during this time, you started making 50k, and are probably still making 50k. The United States is in a very vicious cycle, mostly based around living, working, and commuting.

triceratops 7y ago
> If you're broke and you buy a new car That right there sounds like a self-created problem.
- DoreenMichele 7y ago
  You need a car to get a job. You need a job to afford a car. It's a systemic problem in the US where employers don't really want to hire you if you have no car because our public transit sucks, so they assume you can't get to work without a car. And cars tend to be the second biggest household expense, after rent. My brother has been in the automotive industry most of his life. Thanks to how computerized cars are, you can't really service your own vehicle anymore, even if you are a talented mechanic. And cars just don't last like they used to. If it isn't new, you are probably paying so much more on maintenance that it isn't really saving you money compared to getting a new car. Americans are prisoners of the need to own a car. It's a huge financial burden and my life works as well as it does because I escaped that trap more than a decade ago. It's part of why I can survive at all while supporting three people on well under $20k annually. But most Americans can't imagine escaping it. I get a lot of deer in the headlights looks and have largely stopped talking about the fact that it's possible to make other choices because it's just so unimaginable for many Americans and they just act like I'm a loon and out of my mind completely.
  - triceratops 7y ago
    > You need a car to get a job. You don't need a new car though. I've managed to hold down a job for years driving used cars. > employers don't really want to hire you if you have no car because our public transit sucks, so they assume you can't get to work without a car Other than delivery jobs, I didn't think employers even asked "do you have a car?" in job interviews. It seems like such a weird thing to ask in a country where, as you say, pretty much everyone has a car. > And cars just don't last like they used to. This is straight-up BS. Cars last longer than ever these days. [1] Buy Honda or Toyota and it will likely last over 200k miles. > If it isn't new, you are probably paying so much more on maintenance that it isn't really saving you money compared to getting a new car. New cars cost a lot more in insurance and interest than used cars. That's extra money you will definitely spend if you buy a new car - versus money you might spend if your used car turns out to be a lemon requiring a ton of repairs. New cars also depreciate faster. The minute you drive a new car off the lot, it's worth 20% less than you paid for it. That's literally money out of your pocket, but no one seems to count it when saying "used cars cost more in maintenance." 1. https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/car-reliability-histories/ https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability-owner-satisf...
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
spectramax 7y ago
Why would you buy a new car? Buy a $2000 used 15 year old Honda Civic. You need to be able to go from point A to point B, perhaps a working A/C and heat in the car. This is the thing, middle class people have been spoiled to spend $$$ in entertainment, useless gadgets and 65" TVs where they could just entertain themselves with frugal means - there are many! Go hike. Play chess and board games. Stop buying sugary drinks at Starbucks for $5 every day. Everytime I think about middle class folks living paycheck to paycheck - I have no sympathy. If you don't have disability, and have good physical and mental health, and are earning a middle class wage - you can become wealthy by saving and investing wisely.
- ALittleLight 7y ago
  What level of wealth are you talking about? Cancelling your Starbucks habit will save you 1-3k a year. What are you investing in to turn savings like this into real wealth?
  - spectramax 7y ago
    Stick it in a mutual fund or index fund. If that's too adventurous and risky, get a CD[1] or buy government issued bonds [1] https://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/investing/accounts_products/investment/bonds/certificates_of_deposit https://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/investing/accounts_prod...
    - ALittleLight 7y ago
      If you saved 150 dollars a month for 50 years and got 2% interest on your savings, at the end you'd have an extra 150k or so. That's nice, but not really wealthy. Especially because we're not taking into account fifty years of inflation. If you want to be wealthy you need to figure out ways to earn gigantic amounts of money, not save small amounts by cutting out the pleasant parts of life. Wealthy people tend to either inherit or produce their wealth, not save it by a lifetime of penny pinching.
      - spectramax 7y ago

triceratops 7y ago

> If you're broke and you buy a new car That right there sounds like a self-created problem.

DoreenMichele 7y ago
You need a car to get a job. You need a job to afford a car. It's a systemic problem in the US where employers don't really want to hire you if you have no car because our public transit sucks, so they assume you can't get to work without a car. And cars tend to be the second biggest household expense, after rent. My brother has been in the automotive industry most of his life. Thanks to how computerized cars are, you can't really service your own vehicle anymore, even if you are a talented mechanic. And cars just don't last like they used to. If it isn't new, you are probably paying so much more on maintenance that it isn't really saving you money compared to getting a new car. Americans are prisoners of the need to own a car. It's a huge financial burden and my life works as well as it does because I escaped that trap more than a decade ago. It's part of why I can survive at all while supporting three people on well under $20k annually. But most Americans can't imagine escaping it. I get a lot of deer in the headlights looks and have largely stopped talking about the fact that it's possible to make other choices because it's just so unimaginable for many Americans and they just act like I'm a loon and out of my mind completely.
- triceratops 7y ago
  > You need a car to get a job. You don't need a new car though. I've managed to hold down a job for years driving used cars. > employers don't really want to hire you if you have no car because our public transit sucks, so they assume you can't get to work without a car Other than delivery jobs, I didn't think employers even asked "do you have a car?" in job interviews. It seems like such a weird thing to ask in a country where, as you say, pretty much everyone has a car. > And cars just don't last like they used to. This is straight-up BS. Cars last longer than ever these days. [1] Buy Honda or Toyota and it will likely last over 200k miles. > If it isn't new, you are probably paying so much more on maintenance that it isn't really saving you money compared to getting a new car. New cars cost a lot more in insurance and interest than used cars. That's extra money you will definitely spend if you buy a new car - versus money you might spend if your used car turns out to be a lemon requiring a ton of repairs. New cars also depreciate faster. The minute you drive a new car off the lot, it's worth 20% less than you paid for it. That's literally money out of your pocket, but no one seems to count it when saying "used cars cost more in maintenance." 1. https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability-owner-satisfaction/car-reliability-histories/ https://www.consumerreports.org/car-reliability-owner-satisf...
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]

spectramax 7y ago

Why would you buy a new car? Buy a $2000 used 15 year old Honda Civic. You need to be able to go from point A to point B, perhaps a working A/C and heat in the car. This is the thing, middle class people have been spoiled to spend $$$ in entertainment, useless gadgets and 65" TVs where they could just entertain themselves with frugal means - there are many! Go hike. Play chess and board games. Stop buying sugary drinks at Starbucks for $5 every day. Everytime I think about middle class folks living paycheck to paycheck - I have no sympathy. If you don't have disability, and have good physical and mental health, and are earning a middle class wage - you can become wealthy by saving and investing wisely.

ALittleLight 7y ago
What level of wealth are you talking about? Cancelling your Starbucks habit will save you 1-3k a year. What are you investing in to turn savings like this into real wealth?
- spectramax 7y ago
  Stick it in a mutual fund or index fund. If that's too adventurous and risky, get a CD[1] or buy government issued bonds [1] https://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/investing/accounts_products/investment/bonds/certificates_of_deposit https://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/investing/accounts_prod...
  - ALittleLight 7y ago
    If you saved 150 dollars a month for 50 years and got 2% interest on your savings, at the end you'd have an extra 150k or so. That's nice, but not really wealthy. Especially because we're not taking into account fifty years of inflation. If you want to be wealthy you need to figure out ways to earn gigantic amounts of money, not save small amounts by cutting out the pleasant parts of life. Wealthy people tend to either inherit or produce their wealth, not save it by a lifetime of penny pinching.
    - spectramax 7y ago