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Nothing really mentioned about longevity of this new pouch design. The impressive thing about the Tesla batteries is not only are they efficient when it comes t

by pentae 7y ago

Nothing really mentioned about longevity of this new pouch design. The impressive thing about the Tesla batteries is not only are they efficient when it comes to range but they are also built to last 100s of thousands of miles.

threeseed 7y ago
You mean like the thousands of Model S/X owners who had a software update significantly reduce range due to battery issues: https://chicago.suntimes.com/2019/10/18/20919396/tesla-batteries-software-update-electric-car-fires-range-lawsuit-consumers-guillermo-perez-chicago https://chicago.suntimes.com/2019/10/18/20919396/tesla-batte... If you look at companies like Audi, Porsche etc you actually find that they reserve more of the battery capacity for future degradation than Tesla.
- toomuchtodo 7y ago
  > If you look at companies like Audi, Porsche etc you actually find that they reserve more of the battery capacity for future degradation than Tesla. But their range is pathetic. Audi e-tron is 204 miles, the Porsche Taycan Turbo is 201. My 100D Model S is 319 miles at 100% SOC (down from 330 miles after ~36k miles), and I get pretty damn close to that if I don't cruise at 80-90 mph (versus the more efficient 70mph). This is with a non-Raven drivetrain; a Raven drivetrain with front permanent synchronous reluctance motor from a Model 3 gets even more range (assume 390 miles is highly optimistic from the EPA test cycle, you're still going to get around 350 miles from it at high speeds or stomping on it). And I get a Supercharger network, which I don't get with non-Tesla vehicles. I don't much care about long term degradation though; data shows Tesla packs have longevity for hundreds of thousands of miles, and at the rate of battery cost decline [1], I'll be able to swap out the pack for a cheaper, better one in 8-10 years. Why can't legacy automakers do this? Because they don't build the batteries, they're stuck with contracts to folks like LG Chem. I agree with your link about those older 85kw battery pack owners; Tesla should make them whole instead of nerfing the packs for safety reasons through voltage limits. I assume it'll be resolved with compensation resulting from a class action, which it should be. Looking at public data from a larger cohort of the Model S and X fleet, degradation is typically not substantial. [1] https://about.bnef.com/blog/battery-pack-prices-fall-as-market-ramps-up-with-market-average-at-156-kwh-in-2019/ https://about.bnef.com/blog/battery-pack-prices-fall-as-mark...
- numpad0 7y ago
  Kinda interesting that they were bragging about capacity retention and accelerated charging then 85/90 packs started their combustion processes worldwide.
sremani 7y ago
Chevy Volt battery degradation in terms of percentages has not been bad at all. I understand that GM used LG-Chem and now its bringing whole battery tech in-house. Tesla may be 2-3 years ahead of others in battery tech but GM has been in the game for a while since 2011 Volt. So, the gap is lesser than many think. Now Software and Auto-pilot that is a different ball game and even there the gap is 3 or so years.
new_realist 7y ago
Teslas lose 5% of their range after about 20K miles. That’s the number that should be on the window sticker.

by pentae 7y ago

threeseed 7y ago

You mean like the thousands of Model S/X owners who had a software update significantly reduce range due to battery issues: https://chicago.suntimes.com/2019/10/18/20919396/tesla-batteries-software-update-electric-car-fires-range-lawsuit-consumers-guillermo-perez-chicago https://chicago.suntimes.com/2019/10/18/20919396/tesla-batte... If you look at companies like Audi, Porsche etc you actually find that they reserve more of the battery capacity for future degradation than Tesla.

toomuchtodo 7y ago
> If you look at companies like Audi, Porsche etc you actually find that they reserve more of the battery capacity for future degradation than Tesla. But their range is pathetic. Audi e-tron is 204 miles, the Porsche Taycan Turbo is 201. My 100D Model S is 319 miles at 100% SOC (down from 330 miles after ~36k miles), and I get pretty damn close to that if I don't cruise at 80-90 mph (versus the more efficient 70mph). This is with a non-Raven drivetrain; a Raven drivetrain with front permanent synchronous reluctance motor from a Model 3 gets even more range (assume 390 miles is highly optimistic from the EPA test cycle, you're still going to get around 350 miles from it at high speeds or stomping on it). And I get a Supercharger network, which I don't get with non-Tesla vehicles. I don't much care about long term degradation though; data shows Tesla packs have longevity for hundreds of thousands of miles, and at the rate of battery cost decline [1], I'll be able to swap out the pack for a cheaper, better one in 8-10 years. Why can't legacy automakers do this? Because they don't build the batteries, they're stuck with contracts to folks like LG Chem. I agree with your link about those older 85kw battery pack owners; Tesla should make them whole instead of nerfing the packs for safety reasons through voltage limits. I assume it'll be resolved with compensation resulting from a class action, which it should be. Looking at public data from a larger cohort of the Model S and X fleet, degradation is typically not substantial. [1] https://about.bnef.com/blog/battery-pack-prices-fall-as-market-ramps-up-with-market-average-at-156-kwh-in-2019/ https://about.bnef.com/blog/battery-pack-prices-fall-as-mark...
numpad0 7y ago
Kinda interesting that they were bragging about capacity retention and accelerated charging then 85/90 packs started their combustion processes worldwide.

sremani 7y ago

Chevy Volt battery degradation in terms of percentages has not been bad at all. I understand that GM used LG-Chem and now its bringing whole battery tech in-house. Tesla may be 2-3 years ahead of others in battery tech but GM has been in the game for a while since 2011 Volt. So, the gap is lesser than many think. Now Software and Auto-pilot that is a different ball game and even there the gap is 3 or so years.

new_realist 7y ago

Teslas lose 5% of their range after about 20K miles. That’s the number that should be on the window sticker.