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You could say the same thing about most violence in movies though. Tonnes of popular action movies have the main character casually shooting dozens of people, a
by GhostVII 7y ago
You could say the same thing about most violence in movies though. Tonnes of popular action movies have the main character casually shooting dozens of people, and portray it in a positive light (ex. John Wick). I don't think it is necessarily a bad thing either, it is reasonable to have violence and torture as a plot point in a movie, and portraying that violence accurately would just be upsetting to the audience.
- markdown 7y agoBig difference between killing people and torture.
- jdfnbjn 7y agoMisrepresenting the reality of violence is indefensible. Maybe it's OK to misrepresent love, sport or politics. But violence is serious. There is a qualitative difference between highly stylized gun fu (like John Wick), in which pain is hardly ever in the picture, and any portrayal of torture.
- ahelwer 7y agoThis point gets brought up every time someone brings up the prevalence of torture & rape in media. I submit that it just derails discussion and never goes anywhere interesting. There is a difference between regular action movie style violence (shooting, explosions, etc.) and rape/torture. If you want to socrates that distinction go ahead, but it is common sense that these are different things.
- mc32 7y agoWait so one class of violence people can tell it’s fake and not real but other classes of violence suddenly people take it at face value?
- watwut 7y ago> There is a difference between regular action movie style violence (shooting, explosions, etc.) and rape/torture. The difference being that you are used to one of these and unused to the other?
- rriepe 7y agoI think this is missing the point. Shooting people works at what it sets out to do. Torture doesn't. Despite this, they're both portrayed as effective in getting their intended outcomes. The problem isn't portraying torture, but portraying it as something that always gets actionable, accurate information.
- kybernetikos 7y agoThe problem is both. Torture is both ineffective and immoral. Portraying it as effective is a problem. Portraying it as morally acceptable is a problem.
- rriepe 7y agoYeah but the moral argument for torture boils down entirely to whether or not it works, aside from a few sadists who think of it as revenge or a deterrent.
- mirimir 7y agoEffectiveness and morality are independent, I think.
- rriepe 7y agoWhat moral argument is there if it's ineffective?
- cjhopman 7y agoThe point isn't that there may be an argument that it's moral even if it's ineffective, but rather that, even were it effective there's no moral argument to be made for it.
- keithlfrost 7y agoThis is clearly not true. If it were an effective means of getting accurate information, then there would be moral arguments for using it in some situations, to prevent even worse events (An imminent nuclear attack? Biological weapons attack? Whatever horrific scenarios you care to imagine) from coming to pass.
- Avshalom 7y agoJohn Wick teaches us that killing people is an effective way to make them die. Jack Bauer teaches us that torturing people is an effective way to make them tell us (true) information.
- mirimir 7y agoGenerally, torture is portrayed as working against villains, but not against heroes or anti-heroes.
- mrep 7y agoSince we are talking about 24, in season 6 Morris O'Brian gives the bad guys a working detonator for the nuclear bomb that goes off after getting tortured.
- mirimir 7y agoGood counterpoint. I mostly know films. And I was thinking in particular about "Sin City". And some Seagal film involving his toes and a hammer. Or maybe it was another action hero.
- pavelrub 7y agoThat's only because you chose the lessons that support whatever you wanted to prove. Alternatively, John Wick, and almost every other action movie, show us that violence - and killing people - is an effective and morally acceprable way of solving problems. The distinction between violence and torture depictions is not as obvious as you want it to be.
- naasking 7y ago> Alternatively, John Wick, and almost every other action movie, show us that violence - and killing people - is an effective and morally acceprable way of solving problems. I don't think that's accurate. More like, John Wick implies that violence and murder of those above the law is an effective and morally acceptable way to solve the injustice they perpetrate. That's a much more reasonable position that will have plenty of people on both sides.
- maxerickson 7y agoHow about Iron Man? Tony Stark is a stone cold murderer sociopath, he kills a bunch of terrorists and then seconds after almost killing someone in a friendly fire incident, laughs about it with his buddy.
- sigzero 7y agoThe Saw films are called "torture porn". There is no good thing about them. They are horrible movies and show just how low people will go to watch trash.
- antepodius 7y agoThat's just, like, your opinion, man.