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I get it. But if I get the virus, sure I'll probably be ok. Others that I pass it to might not. I'll need to self isolate, which means I'll need to stay away

I get it. But if I get the virus, sure I'll probably be ok. Others that I pass it to might not. I'll need to self isolate, which means I'll need to stay away from my children and parents for two weeks? four weeks? That's going to be very hard to do. Maybe I could stay at home with my children and they will be fine, but then they will need to be kept isolated. How long will the stigma and fear around them last, six months? How long till the rest of my family are comfortable letting my kids see their grandparents again. If I get the virus, it will be very difficult to do all the things I'll need to do as a responsible adult. It would be magnificent if we all treated this like a natural disaster and for the next two months, not in a state of panic in which we're all gunning to be the last player standing, but from an intention of mutual aid - do what we can to make it very difficult for viruses to transmit - wash our hands, wear masks and disposable gloves out in public, clean surfaces with disinfectant wipes. In two months this might be gone. It's a small, thin hope, but what if we can use this current enigmatic and existential crisis, to practise co-operating to handle the much bigger crises that loom further ahead in the century?

NicolasGorden 7y ago
> It would be magnificent if we all treated this like a natural disaster We already have massive issues that are an enigmatic and existential crisis in the US: 647,457 deaths/year from heart disease. 599,108 deaths/year from cancer. 169,936 deaths/year from accidents. 160,201 deaths/year from respiratory illnesses. 50,00 deaths/year from influenza and another 48,000 deaths/year from suicide. 14 deaths total for Corona Virus. If literally half the American population was infected by the Corona Virus (which is way, way, way higher than any health official estimate puts it), we would have less deaths than we do from heart disease alone. I believe this: our real existential crisis require complex solutions that will take way more than two months. They generally involve making better personal choices: avoiding sugar and fatty/salty foods, not smoking, driving less, getting some exercise, being less stressed, being kinder to each other. But the thing is, when we know the issue and the solution, then we are the problem and it involves looking inward and having a humbling, horrible, daily struggle with the shortcomings we all have. We have to make millions of choices and we will fail making the correct ones most of the time. That's a pretty grim reality. It's quite grating to be constantly recognizing our shortcomings in an effort to self improve. Like the procrastinator who cleans his desk because he doesn't want to sit down and do the hard work, I feel the Corona Virus is a real issue, but at the same time a distraction. Sure, we need to clean our desk, and pay attention to the Corona Virus. But if there's a big problem which is hard to solve and involves looking in, most people will focus on the small problem and look out. A lack of perspective can make a person easily enter into a state of frenzy and uncontrolled fear, especially when others around them are entering it.
- RandomBacon 7y ago
  > 647,457 deaths/year from heart disease. 599,108 deaths/year from cancer. I think I heard the last time "old age" was listed as cause of death was in the 1980s. There will always be a reason that people die, and we don't live forever. You can't say that if we cured "heart disease", that half a million people wouldn't die. Your comparison of causes of death to the virus is not logical.
  - NicolasGorden 7y ago
    The vast majority of those who died from Corona Virus were old. So would you say those also died from old age? I personally wouldn't make that argument, but I'm asking since it would seem to be a necessary conclusion if we follow your path of reasoning. I think a cohesive argument has to be something that can be applied both ways (in favor and against the desired conclusion)
- monkeycantype 7y ago
  I agree with that. absolutely. all of it You're asking us to be better people, which is a good thing to ask, it should be the goal of our civilisation to be even better people that those who got us here and to leave behind better people that we were. our failure to be >> kinder to each other is part individual selfishness, and partly that we're not brave enough to trust each other, because we know that we do too little collectively to protect each other against the fraction of people who would exploit our kindness. So we're buying toilet paper, getting ready to hunker down and hide. We could fix this virus in two months with discipline and cooperation, and make a start on your list too. The fear of this virus, in relation to the threat is way off the plot compared to our our response to those other dangers. But I am frightened by it and other people seem to be too. I have a whole bunch of incomplete thoughts about maybe i / we can can use that fear constructively, and treat the next two months as a short course on how to recognise when I am acting in a way that is following patterns and norms, when there are other better choices
  - NicolasGorden 7y ago
    I love what you wrote. Everything except the using fear part. I also love the honesty of using the word 'frightened by it'. That's what people are feeling and it's absolutely real. I can feel it in people when they talk about it. Being frightened is no joke, nor would I make fun of the feeling. My whole point was to highlight it being irrational. I don't share it. And I don't share it not because I'm special, but because I'm disconnected. When people are happy in a group and the feeling is contagiously moving through a room, I have a hard time getting 'in with it'. So I'm not taking credit for being disconnected, nor am I bragging about it, just explaining that I am, and therefore less likely to become infected with the feelings that seem to virally move through communities who are well connected. But I do think we've accepted fear when we shouldn't. I love the stoics, who seem to think we need to accept fate more than our society seems to view it. In terms of using fear, let me quote one of histories greats, who said it better than I could ever say it: https://youtu.be/nHFTtz3uucY?t=25 https://youtu.be/nHFTtz3uucY?t=25

NicolasGorden 7y ago

> It would be magnificent if we all treated this like a natural disaster We already have massive issues that are an enigmatic and existential crisis in the US: 647,457 deaths/year from heart disease. 599,108 deaths/year from cancer. 169,936 deaths/year from accidents. 160,201 deaths/year from respiratory illnesses. 50,00 deaths/year from influenza and another 48,000 deaths/year from suicide. 14 deaths total for Corona Virus. If literally half the American population was infected by the Corona Virus (which is way, way, way higher than any health official estimate puts it), we would have less deaths than we do from heart disease alone. I believe this: our real existential crisis require complex solutions that will take way more than two months. They generally involve making better personal choices: avoiding sugar and fatty/salty foods, not smoking, driving less, getting some exercise, being less stressed, being kinder to each other. But the thing is, when we know the issue and the solution, then we are the problem and it involves looking inward and having a humbling, horrible, daily struggle with the shortcomings we all have. We have to make millions of choices and we will fail making the correct ones most of the time. That's a pretty grim reality. It's quite grating to be constantly recognizing our shortcomings in an effort to self improve. Like the procrastinator who cleans his desk because he doesn't want to sit down and do the hard work, I feel the Corona Virus is a real issue, but at the same time a distraction. Sure, we need to clean our desk, and pay attention to the Corona Virus. But if there's a big problem which is hard to solve and involves looking in, most people will focus on the small problem and look out. A lack of perspective can make a person easily enter into a state of frenzy and uncontrolled fear, especially when others around them are entering it.

RandomBacon 7y ago
> 647,457 deaths/year from heart disease. 599,108 deaths/year from cancer. I think I heard the last time "old age" was listed as cause of death was in the 1980s. There will always be a reason that people die, and we don't live forever. You can't say that if we cured "heart disease", that half a million people wouldn't die. Your comparison of causes of death to the virus is not logical.
- NicolasGorden 7y ago
  The vast majority of those who died from Corona Virus were old. So would you say those also died from old age? I personally wouldn't make that argument, but I'm asking since it would seem to be a necessary conclusion if we follow your path of reasoning. I think a cohesive argument has to be something that can be applied both ways (in favor and against the desired conclusion)
monkeycantype 7y ago
I agree with that. absolutely. all of it You're asking us to be better people, which is a good thing to ask, it should be the goal of our civilisation to be even better people that those who got us here and to leave behind better people that we were. our failure to be >> kinder to each other is part individual selfishness, and partly that we're not brave enough to trust each other, because we know that we do too little collectively to protect each other against the fraction of people who would exploit our kindness. So we're buying toilet paper, getting ready to hunker down and hide. We could fix this virus in two months with discipline and cooperation, and make a start on your list too. The fear of this virus, in relation to the threat is way off the plot compared to our our response to those other dangers. But I am frightened by it and other people seem to be too. I have a whole bunch of incomplete thoughts about maybe i / we can can use that fear constructively, and treat the next two months as a short course on how to recognise when I am acting in a way that is following patterns and norms, when there are other better choices
- NicolasGorden 7y ago
  I love what you wrote. Everything except the using fear part. I also love the honesty of using the word 'frightened by it'. That's what people are feeling and it's absolutely real. I can feel it in people when they talk about it. Being frightened is no joke, nor would I make fun of the feeling. My whole point was to highlight it being irrational. I don't share it. And I don't share it not because I'm special, but because I'm disconnected. When people are happy in a group and the feeling is contagiously moving through a room, I have a hard time getting 'in with it'. So I'm not taking credit for being disconnected, nor am I bragging about it, just explaining that I am, and therefore less likely to become infected with the feelings that seem to virally move through communities who are well connected. But I do think we've accepted fear when we shouldn't. I love the stoics, who seem to think we need to accept fate more than our society seems to view it. In terms of using fear, let me quote one of histories greats, who said it better than I could ever say it: https://youtu.be/nHFTtz3uucY?t=25 https://youtu.be/nHFTtz3uucY?t=25