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In Germany (and Austria AFAIK) employers are legally obliged to write letters of recommendation for their employees. These letters must be true, complete and fa
by weinzierl 7y ago
In Germany (and Austria AFAIK) employers are legally obliged to write letters of recommendation for their employees. These letters must be true, complete and favorably. So we have a similar situation where employers want to express their opinion but are required to be benevolent.
Does this make letters of recommendation from German companies meaningless?
Some will say yes, but regardless of that, what is certain is that the whole situation developed a kind of flourish language that can express at lot about the employee without ever being obviously negative.
Some sentences can even be translated into school grades.
There are numerous books about this language and even more websites and they all more or less agree, so this language is pretty standardized since at least maybe 30 years. A last interesting point about this language is that some things are said by leaving out certain phrases or words, so you say something by not saying something.
Finally I'll give you few examples [+]. May they serve as an example for a future AirBnB language;-)
He has specialist knowledge and a healthy dose of self-confidence.
Meaning: This person is an arrogant jerk.
He's quickly become popular with clients.
Meaning: This person can't negotiate at all.
She had great empathy for the needs of the staff.
Meaning: This person flirted more than they worked.
His sociability helped to improve the atmosphere a work.
Meaning: This person is an alcoholic.
[+] Translated by me to the best of my knowledge. I'll spare you the German originals to avoid clutter. If you want sources shoot me a message, E-mail is in my profile.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- droopyEyelids 7y agoCan you give us some examples of recommendations that would translate favorably?
- weinzierl 7y agoSure. The ones that come to my mind are little bit harder to translate though, because they rely on nuances in German grammar, but I'll give it a try. To give a person grade A in their performance evaluation you would write: Er erledigte seine Aufgaben stets zu unserer vollsten Zufriedenheit. To give grade B you would just change one word slightly: Er erledigte seine Aufgaben stets zu unserer vollen Zufriedenheit. Both translate into English as: He always completed his tasks to our complete satisfaction. The difference is that in the first sentence the word complete (vollsten) is the superlative which makes as little sense in German as it makes in English and is grammatically incorrect. Grade C would be expressed like this: He completed the tasks assigned to him to our complete satisfaction. Here the word always is missing. Another positive example would be: His behaviour towards superiors, colleagues and customers always set an example. Here the order of superiors, then colleagues and then customers is vital. EDIT: I guess the first example could be translated literally like: "He always completed his tasks to our completest satisfaction." I didn't write that above because I think vollsten in German doesn't sound nearly as bad as completest sounds in English, at least to my ESL ear.
- marton78 7y ago"most complete" instead of completest sounds fine.
- prewett 7y agoI like the examples to illustrate both sides. I think if you had to always be positive in American you would say: A: "He always completed his tasks to our complete satisfaction" ("complete" being the superlative) B: "He always completed his tasks to our satisfaction" ("always" emphasizing the consistency of our satisfaction) C: "His work was satisfactory" F: <something that omits any mention his work> Although B sounds a little awkward to me.
- userbinator 7y agoAlternatively, F: "He makes an effort at completing his tasks."
- numpad0 7y ago“He strives to complete his tasks to our satisfaction”
- krj 7y agofull and fullest serve for quite natural substitutes for vollen und vollsten i.e. full satisfaction
- Too 7y agoThose are some very subtle hints, would anyone reading these letters really analyze and interpret them in such detail? I do understand the German, even if it's not my first tongue, and i can tell the superlative is obviously stronger in the first version, but couldn't that difference equally be attributed to personal writing style? Compared side by side it's easy but if given just one how would you know? From my experience a CV is usually skimmed through very quickly because you have a huge stack to process, so picking up on these hints would require significant effort and understanding of who wrote it.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- arprocter 7y agoI was always told that in the UK it's illegal to give a negative recommendation (in itself an oxymoron, and who gets to define 'negative'?). The way around it is that employers can decline to make any statement at all, which is then taken as a negative.
- scott_w 7y agoThe good news is this advice is completely incorrect. According to the government website advice: “a reference must be fair and accurate” and can be challenged. Source: https://www.gov.uk/work-reference https://www.gov.uk/work-reference
- comprev 7y agoI was always told it's perfectly legal, but writing anything negative opens the path for future legal headaches. It's less hassle to only confirm the dates worked.
- arprocter 7y agoInteresting - I'll file that under 'common misconception' From the former employer's point of view not giving a reference is probably a better use of time, unless they especially wanted to torpedo someone
- chrisseaton 7y ago> in the UK it's illegal to give a negative recommendation This is not true.
- maxhedrome 7y agoI understand this... but god is it fucking stupid. This is literally the epitome of what taking away free speech does. Nothing is fucking true and humans are god damn stupid.
- perl4ever 7y agoTo the extent this is accurate, it has to lead to misunderstandings and accidents. In your examples, it sounds plausible, but if you are suspicious (and surely everybody reading such a thing is) you could interpret any statement as expressing something negative in a positive way. Ultimately it's more like a Rorschach test for the reader.
- sib 7y agoSo much for freedom of speech, I guess. That sounds awful.
- dehrmann 7y agoGermany doesn't have free speech, at least not by American standards.
- foepys 7y agoNot even America has free speech by American standards. E.g. you can't say "fuck" on TV and you can only create and sell pornography under certain circumstances.
- dehrmann 7y ago> E.g. you can't say "fuck" on TV Broadcast TV, and it gets messy when it's a fleeting expletive. And you can wear a shirt saying "Fuck the Draft" in a courthouse[1]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cohen_v._California https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cohen_v._California
- spectramax 7y agoAmerica has a lot of problems, major ones. But there are glimpses of hope, truth, justice and fairness that still resonate in the ethos of America - thanks for sharing.
- sib 7y agoPretty much my point (I lived in Germany some years ago, although born and lived most of my life in the US).
- grawprog 7y ago>In Germany (and Austria AFAIK) employers are legally obliged to write letters of recommendation for their employees. These letters must be true, complete and favorably. So we have a similar situation where employers want to express their opinion but are required to be benevolent. Does it actually even happen often that people who leave jobs under hostile or negative circumstances ask for recommendations? Personally, i'd never even think to ask for a recommendation from the few jobs i've left or lost under bad circumstances. I only ever use references from jobs where i've parted amicably anyway. Do other people actually try and get recommendations from places they were fired from or left because of not so good reasons? I may be wrong but I think here (BC, Canada), employers aren't allowed to give negative recommendations, I don't think they're required to give one though. I've never checked, but this is what i've been told over the years, so I might be wrong about this part.
- thepangolino 7y agoAfaik a recommendation letter from your previous employer is practically mandatory to provide in any application in Germany.
- Krasnol 7y ago> Does it actually even happen often that people who leave jobs under hostile or negative circumstances ask for recommendations? It's not called a "recommendation". It's "Arbeitszeugnis" which translates to more of a testimonial or certificate making it a kind of must have. Not having it would be like finishing school without having grades. So yes, it's especially a big topic in hostile or negative circumstances as it's (even the wording) usually part of an agreement at the labour court.
- Spooky23 7y agoMy favorite of this ilk: “His attendance is good.”
- solstice 7y agoMeaning?
- tonyarkles 7y agoThe person shows up to work. If that’s the only nice thing you have to say about an employee, that says something :)
- spectramax 7y agoWhy is there a law that legally obliges employers to write positive reviews? How is such a law implemented and what must be the reasons for supporting such a legislature?
- Krasnol 7y agoThe judgement (Urteil vom 26.11.1963 VI ZR 221/62) which dates back to 1963 says that the employer needs to show general "good will" in issuing the work certificate. It doesn't say that you are always entitled to get the best one though because another judgement says that the certificate needs to be the truth. There are thousands of lawsuits every year because of that. In the end the employer needs to bring up solid proof for wrongdoing to justify a bad certificate. So usually, if you get an job applicant with a bad work certificate, you can be sure that he REALLY messed up on his last job. Unusually it would probably be better for the applicant to say he/she has been unemployed than show up with a bad certificate.
- dx7tnt 7y agoBrilliant post. This reminds me of the classic "What the British say / What the British mean" dialectic: https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/enhanced/webdr06/2013/7/1/9/enhanced-buzz-orig-13765-1372685755-19.jpg?downsize=700%3A%2A&output-quality=auto&output-format=auto&output-quality=auto&output-format=auto&downsize=360:* https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/enhanced/web...
- alexandrerond 7y agoI always asked for an English version of the letter in addition to the German one. It then loses all the nuances and just looks nice.