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Devil's advocate for a moment: why can't the business do whatever they want with the data? It's not clear to me that I own the data in any single transaction w

Devil's advocate for a moment: why can't the business do whatever they want with the data? It's not clear to me that I own the data in any single transaction with a business. I could see us both owning it, either shared or independently. For VISA to sell transaction data, that's one thing. But a business that uses it to run their marketing, using transactions with their business? That seems less clear. To further muddy the waters, if I can tell the business how they can use transaction data, shouldn't they also be able to tell me how I can/cannot use it? That seems like it would infringe upon bad reviews/etc., but it feels more consistent.

A4ET8a8uTh0 7y ago
It is a good question to ask. I still am kinda struggling with deciding where exactly I stand on this. In my case, it always seems to be some sort of invisible line that I can't quite articulate. For lack of a better term, it feels like transgression. For example, I give the business my credit card information, but I don't give them permission to use that card on anything other than that one transaction ( or more if recurring ). If I give them my phone, it is for the express purpose of handling my business. That phone is not there to be sold to the highest bidder. For the record, I am agreeing with you. The waters are definitely muddy, but we need some sort of enforceable and enforced ground rules.
- noja 7y ago
  You are struggling to articulate why it's not okay for a company to quietly hand all of your purchases over to facebook without ever telling you about it or asking you if that is okay?
  - A4ET8a8uTh0 7y ago
    Neither. I am not certain where the line should be drawn. I am not a zealot. I evaluate both positions and see if there is a way to balance both interests. If there is none, I err on the side of the customer ( ie. me ). And I am saying all this, because there is a reason for business to gather this information. I am willing to entertain an argument for keeping some of that data for efficient processing of my business. I am less charitable with hoarding data for no other reason than selling me more stuff and or outright selling that information to 3rd party to that in some other way. So yeah. Neither. But there is a line. I just don't know where it should be.
JohnFen 7y ago
> But a business that uses it to run their marketing, using transactions with their business? It's about informed consent. The businesses should at least warn their customers that they're doing this, and who they're ratting us out to. That way we can each make an informed decision about whether or not to use that business.
- ViViDboarder 7y ago
  Exactly this. If I know a business I’m thinking of purchasing with is going to send my purchase info to Facebook, I’m picking a different business.
- mikekchar 7y ago
  What would be even better is if not only would they have to tell you this, but that you could say, "No. I don't agree to this nonsense" and they would have to refrain. They wouldn't even be able to deny you service based on that. They would, of course, be able to use the data if they needed to fulfill the contract with the customer, or if they had some legitimate reason for using it, or if there was some legal requirement for using it. Otherwise they would have to get consent. It would be a kind of General Data Protection Regulation. All joking aside, and as much as I've grumbled about implementing it at the company where I work, I really wish this was a thing world wide.
nkrisc 7y ago
> why can't the business do whatever they want with the data? Because we have yet to tell them they can't do whatever they want with it. That's the purpose of regulating it.

A4ET8a8uTh0 7y ago

It is a good question to ask. I still am kinda struggling with deciding where exactly I stand on this. In my case, it always seems to be some sort of invisible line that I can't quite articulate. For lack of a better term, it feels like transgression. For example, I give the business my credit card information, but I don't give them permission to use that card on anything other than that one transaction ( or more if recurring ). If I give them my phone, it is for the express purpose of handling my business. That phone is not there to be sold to the highest bidder. For the record, I am agreeing with you. The waters are definitely muddy, but we need some sort of enforceable and enforced ground rules.

noja 7y ago
You are struggling to articulate why it's not okay for a company to quietly hand all of your purchases over to facebook without ever telling you about it or asking you if that is okay?
- A4ET8a8uTh0 7y ago
  Neither. I am not certain where the line should be drawn. I am not a zealot. I evaluate both positions and see if there is a way to balance both interests. If there is none, I err on the side of the customer ( ie. me ). And I am saying all this, because there is a reason for business to gather this information. I am willing to entertain an argument for keeping some of that data for efficient processing of my business. I am less charitable with hoarding data for no other reason than selling me more stuff and or outright selling that information to 3rd party to that in some other way. So yeah. Neither. But there is a line. I just don't know where it should be.

JohnFen 7y ago

> But a business that uses it to run their marketing, using transactions with their business? It's about informed consent. The businesses should at least warn their customers that they're doing this, and who they're ratting us out to. That way we can each make an informed decision about whether or not to use that business.

ViViDboarder 7y ago
Exactly this. If I know a business I’m thinking of purchasing with is going to send my purchase info to Facebook, I’m picking a different business.
mikekchar 7y ago
What would be even better is if not only would they have to tell you this, but that you could say, "No. I don't agree to this nonsense" and they would have to refrain. They wouldn't even be able to deny you service based on that. They would, of course, be able to use the data if they needed to fulfill the contract with the customer, or if they had some legitimate reason for using it, or if there was some legal requirement for using it. Otherwise they would have to get consent. It would be a kind of General Data Protection Regulation. All joking aside, and as much as I've grumbled about implementing it at the company where I work, I really wish this was a thing world wide.

nkrisc 7y ago

> why can't the business do whatever they want with the data? Because we have yet to tell them they can't do whatever they want with it. That's the purpose of regulating it.