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Novel Laser-Based Method Effectively De-Ices Aircraft
- AWildC182 7y agoInteresting approach and hugely useful if practical, though it bears mentioning that the leading edges on aircraft experience a fair amount of abrasion from dust, debris, and insects. I wonder how long this treatment would be effective for in a real world environment
- jcims 7y agoSuper important question, first thing that came to mind. How would you even test it for efficacy? Just look for ice building up and say 'welp, time for refinish?'
- colechristensen 7y agoThere are wind tunnels for testing icing behaviors, not too hard to do an accelerated aging test and come up with standard procedures.
- AWildC182 7y agoCould be easier said than done. There are lots of edge cases that could become a problem in real use. Stuff like surface contamination from various fluids or environmental factors.
- dmurray 7y agoDo 90% of your testing in the wind tunnel, and sanity check your results by flying it for real.
- numpad0 7y agoAlso the feature size is in μm range, so I imagine a flashlight or barcode gun shaped UV camera device to observe interference or reflectivity would be possible.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- t0mas88 7y agoTurn off wing anti-ice, fly around, if you get ice buildup you turn anti-ice back on? Having anti-ice on decreases performance and increases fuel use. So being able to fly without anti-ice on for longer is better.
- AWildC182 7y agoWould be nice to save weight on full size anti ice systems. Flying around to test anti icing is also not the greatest approach. If ice starts to build up and you shed it, it can come off in chunks and break things.
- zkms 7y agothe paper does mentions that; and honestly i'm interested in how long this sort of micropatterning lasts when it's incorporated in an aircraft, as well as how its anti-ice performance is affected as it gets fouled/abraded: > Further research is required to understand the influence of different icing parameters on ice adhesion and to assess the compatibility and robustness of such surfaces in operational environment (i.e., rain and sand erosion, UV resistance, interaction with other fluids, such as hydraulic and anti‐icing)
- Animats 7y agoRight. The press release claims it's being used on some Airbus 350, but that may just mean "we treated a small part of the wing so we can see what happens". Fragility is a big problem with most of these microsurface treatments. There's the "Never Wet" treatment you can buy now; it's a two-component paint that hardens into tiny points to which water cannot adhere. Works great when new, wears out easily. It has to be the top surface or it won't work, so there's no way to protect it. Same for that "ultra black" material. OK for camera interiors and other protected optical systems, too fragile to expose. Amusingly, a common laser process for steel does exactly the opposite of this anti-icing process. The idea is to roughen the surface for painting, but in a regular way. Same effect as sandblasting, but because the pattern is regular, you get a smoother paint surface and don't have to sand the primer layer. Used in auto manufacturing.
- forkexec 7y agoLeading edges might be better served with deicing boots rather than special paint to constantly wear off. Or, if there were some abrasion-resistant film that is transparent to the laser light, then it might work. I would think 3+ lasers would be needed to cover all aerodynamic surfaces.
- blakesterz 7y agoSadly it appears this is not a giant laser that shoots the plane when it's covered with ice. It's a way to change the surface of the wings so that ice/snow doesn't stick in the first place.
- zwieback 7y agoYeah, I was expecting to read about how to get a gigantic laser out onto the runways. Still cool, though.
- NovemberWhiskey 7y agoRight - this is anti-icing; not deicing.
- hinkley 7y agoAustin Powers 4: Scott, I asked you for an airplane with frickin' lasers on it, and you give me a plane covered with what? What is this guys? It's sandpaper. You covered a plane in sandpaper. Do I have to do everything around here myself? What? Wha wha? Are you gonna cry? Does Scotty wanna cry?
- Proven 7y agoDamn.. I clicked on the comments to see if the tech can be adopted to dealing with insects...
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- Rapzid 7y agoIndeed. I feel like I read about these micro-structures creating hydrophobic surfaces YEARS ago. Perhaps they just found a way to efficiently create them?
- DailyHN 7y agoVery clever. Also seems like something pulled from ancient aliens.
- ghastmaster 7y agoWhat happens when they paint the parts to prevent corrosion? I imagine all the properties of the laser etching are negated.
- deleted 7y ago[deleted]
- kilo_bravo_3 7y agoI imagine this technique would be most useful on the leading edge of wings and the engine nose cowlings. On many aircraft those parts are left unpainted anyways.
- WalterBright 7y ago> On many aircraft those parts are left unpainted anyways. Erosion will de-paint it anyway.
- oliveshell 7y agoAs far as I understand it, corrosion isn’t that much of a worry with aluminum airframes— as long as the plane doesn’t spend too much time near salt water. There are many past and present airline liveries where the fuselage is left largely bare, for instance: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5f/Boeing_767-323-ER%2C_Oneworld_%28American_Airlines%29_AN2217029.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5f/Boeing_7...
- oliveshell 7y agoTo the person who downvoted the above without leaving a comment: Is this not the case? I know for a fact that planes whose home airport is near the ocean have more issues with corrosion. If I'm wrong, I'd be genuinely delighted to learn how.
- 0_____0 7y agodidnt downvote you but your link is broken (lost 'g' at the end)
- AWildC182 7y agoAnyone with a better background, are micro surface features required for this kind of thing or could teflon/rain-x type chemical coatings create a more durable/corrosion resistant/easily repairable effect?
- forkexec 7y agoIf it can be manufactured for reasonable cost, effectiveness and sensible power consumption, seems like a fit for small aircraft, fighter jets and any aircraft that don't have deicing boots or anti-ice systems.
- frandroid 7y agoDid Fraunhofer just repurpose MP3 codecs to aluminium surface patterns?