3 ms·

There's a simple argument to be made that the events that are unfolding in the course of our lifetimes have resulted in an unprecedented degree of societal and

by zackham 16y ago

There's a simple argument to be made that the events that are unfolding in the course of our lifetimes have resulted in an unprecedented degree of societal and technological progress than ever before in the history of the world. You're offering a reasonable critique, but no alternative. I'd love to hear an argument for another period in history that might be a contender for being as or more "great".

dasil003 16y ago
The taming of fire may have been relatively more significant
JonnieCache 16y ago
The laying of the first transatlantic telegraph, to pluck an idea out of the air. Or, the rise of Freud's ideas in society in the latter half of the 20th century. Or, the change from hunter-gatherer societies to agrarianism. Or, The Terror in france and the various other european uprisings of that time. Or, lest we forget, WORLD WAR FUCKING TWO. EDIT: I'm defining 'great' here as 'greatest change' because 'greatest progress' is ill-defined to the point of meaninglessness. EDIT2: Here's another one: the invention of the 2" ABS plastic pipe and it's employment in sanitation and irrigation. Although it obviously depends on how old you are as to whether or not that falls within "our lifetimes."
gloob 16y ago
Establishing the groundwork for this discussion: What do you mean by "societal progress"? Do you mean things like reduction of poverty, or production of arts, or decrease in the frequency of mass murder, or some combination of all of the above and more? Or do you mean something else entirely? What constitutes "technological progress"? Does the progression from a dozen websites to ten million constitute meaningful technological progress - is pushing ten thousand cars off an assembly line twice as progressive as a mere five thousand? Or do you mean actual innovation? In the case of the latter, how would you measure the rate of innovation today with that of earlier periods? (In principle, the number of patents granted per year should give you a rough idea of this, but (1) patents have only been around for a fairly short period of time, and (2) their actual value in measuring innovation is highly disputed). Finally, you seem to imply in your last paragraph that the "greatness" of an era is a function of its social and technological progress, and no other factors. Is this reading correct? Or is the door open to other measures as well?

by zackham 16y ago

dasil003 16y ago

The taming of fire may have been relatively more significant

JonnieCache 16y ago

The laying of the first transatlantic telegraph, to pluck an idea out of the air. Or, the rise of Freud's ideas in society in the latter half of the 20th century. Or, the change from hunter-gatherer societies to agrarianism. Or, The Terror in france and the various other european uprisings of that time. Or, lest we forget, WORLD WAR FUCKING TWO. EDIT: I'm defining 'great' here as 'greatest change' because 'greatest progress' is ill-defined to the point of meaninglessness. EDIT2: Here's another one: the invention of the 2" ABS plastic pipe and it's employment in sanitation and irrigation. Although it obviously depends on how old you are as to whether or not that falls within "our lifetimes."

gloob 16y ago

Establishing the groundwork for this discussion: What do you mean by "societal progress"? Do you mean things like reduction of poverty, or production of arts, or decrease in the frequency of mass murder, or some combination of all of the above and more? Or do you mean something else entirely? What constitutes "technological progress"? Does the progression from a dozen websites to ten million constitute meaningful technological progress - is pushing ten thousand cars off an assembly line twice as progressive as a mere five thousand? Or do you mean actual innovation? In the case of the latter, how would you measure the rate of innovation today with that of earlier periods? (In principle, the number of patents granted per year should give you a rough idea of this, but (1) patents have only been around for a fairly short period of time, and (2) their actual value in measuring innovation is highly disputed). Finally, you seem to imply in your last paragraph that the "greatness" of an era is a function of its social and technological progress, and no other factors. Is this reading correct? Or is the door open to other measures as well?