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I'm skeptic. Forcing people to buy crap they don't need by denying them ways to store cash will probably increase some numbers in some spreadsheets. But is it

by pb82 7y ago

I'm skeptic. Forcing people to buy crap they don't need by denying them ways to store cash will probably increase some numbers in some spreadsheets. But is it really a net positive for society? Or are there other reasons that I didn't consider like more people seeking investment options like the stock market?

74ls00 7y ago
From the long term view, it seems reasonable to assume that the high economic growth rates of the 20th century are not going to be something we’ll see again anytime soon. An environmentally-sustainable economic outlook for the future is likely to see long period of close to 0% growth, and more frequent periods of negative growth. Environmentally-sustainable economics seems like a net positive for society, and at this point, an almost necessity.
beefield 7y ago
Well, not "forcing"[1] people buying crap today makes the people creating the crap jobless and yes, that has a real cost for society. first because the jobless do not create value and second because someone needs to pay their unemployment benefits. [1] Nobody is forcing you to do anything. You can voluntarily choose to lend your money to the bank if you agree with the interest rate. If you do not, you are free to do as you please with your money. Find someone who is willing to pay better interest rates (typically more risky)[2], buy crap, or even buy bitcoin or gold. [2] Interesting question is, why society should guarantee you a return[3] on your investments if you do not yourself find a counterparty that is willing to pay you high enough return that you are happy with? Smells awfully lot like socialism to me. [3] And why this guaranteed return needs to be exactly 0%? Why not 5%?
- SuoDuanDao 7y ago
  If it's legal to own bitcoin or gold, what good does eliminating cash do?
  - beefield 7y ago
    Central banks do not guarantee purchasing power of gold or bitcoin. (A note, The questions I made above are not meant to be snarky. Those are the kind of questions I struggled literally for months when I tried to get my head around negative rates and whether they make sense or not.)
    - SuoDuanDao 7y ago
      How do they guarantee the purchasing power of legal tender? Serious question, I thought the health of the economy and the need to pay taxes was all that did that.

by pb82 7y ago

74ls00 7y ago

From the long term view, it seems reasonable to assume that the high economic growth rates of the 20th century are not going to be something we’ll see again anytime soon. An environmentally-sustainable economic outlook for the future is likely to see long period of close to 0% growth, and more frequent periods of negative growth. Environmentally-sustainable economics seems like a net positive for society, and at this point, an almost necessity.

beefield 7y ago

Well, not "forcing"[1] people buying crap today makes the people creating the crap jobless and yes, that has a real cost for society. first because the jobless do not create value and second because someone needs to pay their unemployment benefits. [1] Nobody is forcing you to do anything. You can voluntarily choose to lend your money to the bank if you agree with the interest rate. If you do not, you are free to do as you please with your money. Find someone who is willing to pay better interest rates (typically more risky)[2], buy crap, or even buy bitcoin or gold. [2] Interesting question is, why society should guarantee you a return[3] on your investments if you do not yourself find a counterparty that is willing to pay you high enough return that you are happy with? Smells awfully lot like socialism to me. [3] And why this guaranteed return needs to be exactly 0%? Why not 5%?

SuoDuanDao 7y ago
If it's legal to own bitcoin or gold, what good does eliminating cash do?
- beefield 7y ago
  Central banks do not guarantee purchasing power of gold or bitcoin. (A note, The questions I made above are not meant to be snarky. Those are the kind of questions I struggled literally for months when I tried to get my head around negative rates and whether they make sense or not.)
  - SuoDuanDao 7y ago
    How do they guarantee the purchasing power of legal tender? Serious question, I thought the health of the economy and the need to pay taxes was all that did that.