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> It's all very convenient until the crap hits the fan I have difficulties imagining the crap hitting fan that simultaneously breaks down electronic payment s

> It's all very convenient until the crap hits the fan I have difficulties imagining the crap hitting fan that simultaneously breaks down electronic payment systems but rather miraculously keeps the purchasing power of paper money intact for any extended time. Could you maybe elaborate why you consider this specific scenario likely enough to worry about?

Mirioron 7y ago
The crap hitting the fan scenario is when people are barred from payment because of something non-illegal that they did. It's a third-party payment service, so it's possible.
- beefield 7y ago
  Maybe I am naive[1], but I have difficulties seeing that happening in the EU. I mean, that we would have significant amount of merchants accepting only payment systems that are not available to everyone. Of course, if someone has evidence of (a possibility of) opposite, I am keen to educate myself. [1] However, given everything I know (which is not much) about US financial system, I do understand that people there worry about things like this
fipar 7y ago
You may be reading "crap hits the fan" as something massive, like a collapse of the banking system. I'm not the OP, but I can also read it as "crap hits the fan for me", and this makes it simple to imagine ways in which a person can lose access to digital payment (by theft, by being blocked by the bank for whatever reason, etc.) and if this happens, life would be difficult on a cash-less society until this access is regained. Just imagine if you're accidentally identified as a financial supporter of terrorism or something like that, and your bank accounts are blocked. How would you buy even basic necessities if cash is not allowed?
- mellavora 7y ago
  which can and does happen.
- 2rsf 7y ago
  While this might happen what do you suggest as a way to mitigate the risk ? there a practical limit to how much cash the average person can hold at home.
- matz1 7y ago
  People can lose access to cash too, by theft or whatever. >Just imagine if you're accidentally identified as a financial supporter of terrorism or something like that, and your bank accounts are blocked Then make it illegal for bank to block your account or whatever. Sure, digital payment has its issue but why not fix the issue instead of going back to cash.
detaro 7y ago
Backend service for electronic payment breaks for a day because $reasons, either for your bank only, the provider most stores use or for the payment network overall.
Legogris 7y ago
Private banks have no obligation to take you as a customer and there's no public alternative.
- Symbiote 7y ago
  Regulation could require banks to accept anyone as a customer. Regulation in the UK requires banks to accept almost anyone -- it looks like there's still no luck for people suspected of fraud, or without a fixed address. https://www.which.co.uk/money/banking/bank-accounts/best-bank-accounts/best-basic-bank-accounts-axdj05l1236r https://www.which.co.uk/money/banking/bank-accounts/best-ban...
- matz1 7y ago
  Then make it an obligation to take you as costumer or make a public alternative.
mellavora 7y ago
You could move to India if you wanted a current example. https://techcrunch.com/2020/03/06/indias-yes-bank-breakdown-disrupts-walmarts-phonepe-among-a-dozen-other-services/ https://techcrunch.com/2020/03/06/indias-yes-bank-breakdown-... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22502649 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22502649
mixmastamyk 7y ago
Every once in a while my card simply doesn’t work for a day or two. One time it was during an emergency. Sometimes it’s fraud. Imagine not being able to eat because your card was locked by the bank.

Mirioron 7y ago

The crap hitting the fan scenario is when people are barred from payment because of something non-illegal that they did. It's a third-party payment service, so it's possible.

beefield 7y ago
Maybe I am naive[1], but I have difficulties seeing that happening in the EU. I mean, that we would have significant amount of merchants accepting only payment systems that are not available to everyone. Of course, if someone has evidence of (a possibility of) opposite, I am keen to educate myself. [1] However, given everything I know (which is not much) about US financial system, I do understand that people there worry about things like this

fipar 7y ago

You may be reading "crap hits the fan" as something massive, like a collapse of the banking system. I'm not the OP, but I can also read it as "crap hits the fan for me", and this makes it simple to imagine ways in which a person can lose access to digital payment (by theft, by being blocked by the bank for whatever reason, etc.) and if this happens, life would be difficult on a cash-less society until this access is regained. Just imagine if you're accidentally identified as a financial supporter of terrorism or something like that, and your bank accounts are blocked. How would you buy even basic necessities if cash is not allowed?

mellavora 7y ago
which can and does happen.
2rsf 7y ago
While this might happen what do you suggest as a way to mitigate the risk ? there a practical limit to how much cash the average person can hold at home.
matz1 7y ago
People can lose access to cash too, by theft or whatever. >Just imagine if you're accidentally identified as a financial supporter of terrorism or something like that, and your bank accounts are blocked Then make it illegal for bank to block your account or whatever. Sure, digital payment has its issue but why not fix the issue instead of going back to cash.

detaro 7y ago

Backend service for electronic payment breaks for a day because $reasons, either for your bank only, the provider most stores use or for the payment network overall.

Legogris 7y ago

Private banks have no obligation to take you as a customer and there's no public alternative.

Symbiote 7y ago
Regulation could require banks to accept anyone as a customer. Regulation in the UK requires banks to accept almost anyone -- it looks like there's still no luck for people suspected of fraud, or without a fixed address. https://www.which.co.uk/money/banking/bank-accounts/best-bank-accounts/best-basic-bank-accounts-axdj05l1236r https://www.which.co.uk/money/banking/bank-accounts/best-ban...
matz1 7y ago
Then make it an obligation to take you as costumer or make a public alternative.

mellavora 7y ago

You could move to India if you wanted a current example. https://techcrunch.com/2020/03/06/indias-yes-bank-breakdown-disrupts-walmarts-phonepe-among-a-dozen-other-services/ https://techcrunch.com/2020/03/06/indias-yes-bank-breakdown-... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22502649 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22502649

mixmastamyk 7y ago

Every once in a while my card simply doesn’t work for a day or two. One time it was during an emergency. Sometimes it’s fraud. Imagine not being able to eat because your card was locked by the bank.