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That article is out of date. In large parts of central Stockholm, you can't pay by cash. Legal tender is just words, if they don't take cash there's not much yo
by jamesblonde 7y ago
That article is out of date. In large parts of central Stockholm, you can't pay by cash. Legal tender is just words, if they don't take cash there's not much you can do.
- reaperducer 7y agoSo how do poor people function in a cashless society?
- username90 7y agoThey have bank accounts and debit cards like everyone else? In Sweden everyone can get Visa and Mastercard debit cards so you can even do internet purchases everywhere with them. If you mean how they transfer money between each other, they just use smart phones and Swish. Beggars even ask for money that way.
- bryanrasmussen 7y agoAnd when you lose your card because you have a problem keeping track of physical objects do you then just go to the bank and they use the card replacing machine to issue you a new one right on the spot? That's pretty cool, I wish we had something like that here in Denmark because wow, I lose my card a lot and I have to go weeks without one. One time I lost my card, ordered a new one, the card arrived but the pin code didn't arrive, so I waited an extra 4 days for it, and called up and they said sometimes that happens and then they sent me a new one, which meant I went essentially 24 days without a card. As far as phones go, so if your phone goes out, gets lost, gets stolen, breaks you have no money because money is tightly bound to your phone. I have a difficult time respecting the architectural decisions that have been made in this new implementation of money.
- username90 7y agoIf you really lose your card that often why don't you just order two to begin with? You'd have to take precautions like this even with normal money, since if you misplaced your monthly allowance you'd still be out for several weeks.
- bryanrasmussen 7y agoI guess I never thought about ordering two cards, probably like most people I like to think it won't happen again. If I am using cash I don't carry all the cash available to me all the time, so if I lose some cash it is not quite the same as losing my method of accessing money.
- kuschku 7y agoBecause that’s not possible – you can’t have multiple cards with the same name on the same account. I know, I’ve tried after I’ve spent the entirety of january without without a card due to losing one (and the bank fucking up the replacement).
- username90 7y agoMy bank lets me do that, not sure why your bank wouldn't let you. Also these aren't really problems with a cashless society, they are problems with a partially cashless society. Society will fix these issues very quickly when there are no workarounds, like making sure that everyone can have backup cards for example.
- Mirioron 7y agoI don't believe that they'll get fixed. It'll just be filed under "huh, that's terrible!"
- 2rsf 7y agoorder an extra credit card, never use it and store it someplace safe
- kuschku 7y agoI can’t — the only way to order a card automatically deactivates all other cards. I can create a second card, on a different name than my own, but that’d require ID verification for that different person (e.g. for shared accounts of couples)
- exitheone 7y agoI have two cards in two separate locations + my phone bound to the same account for mobile payments. Circumstances would have to become pretty extreme for all of these to disappear at the same time.
- kzrdude 7y ago> everyone This is unfortunately not true, because you need a personal number to have a bank account.
- 2rsf 7y agoI'm not sure it is legally true, although I have heard it is in reality
- johnlorentzson 7y agoSwish and its identification system "Bank ID" are both owned and operated by for-profit companies. The clients only run on certain operating systems and they're actively preventing custom clients. An app on your phone is not an alternative to handing a bill to someone.
- occz 7y agoWell, they get a bank account and a debit card connected to that account. It's usually free/very cheap in Sweden. As far as I understand it, the 'underbanked'-situation present in the U.S. for poor people is not present in Sweden.
- concerned_user 7y agoIn europe in general debit accounts for residents are either free or very cheap, now if you are not a resident that is different story.
- hocuspocus 7y agoAlso people receiving any kind of welfare benefits in Europe need a bank account, there's no way they are unbanked.
- tedeh 7y agoA bank account is a right for every EU citizen: https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/financial-products-and-services/bank-accounts-eu/index_en.htm https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/financial-pr... Banks are not allowed to refuse account opening to any resident.
- jussij 7y agoFrom your link: > In some EU countries, your bank might still charge you an annual fee for this basic payment account. This fee should remain reasonable. For someone who is really poor, that annual account keeping fee is a much bigger hit to their pocket when compared to others not doing it so tough.
- username90 7y agoIt is around $20 a year, there are no people poor enough for that to be an issue in Europe.
- throwaway99674 7y agoBelieve me, there are people in Europe for who paying 20€ extra can be an issue. Even worse: unexpectedly having to pay 20€. Source: been there, done that.
- theshrike79 7y agoIt's not an unexpected 20€, more like 1-2 euros a month. Every month. At the same time.
- Mirioron 7y agoMinimum wage in Bulgaria (part of the EU) is €3,743 per year. Now imagine someone that's not full-time employed. €20 for them is not nothing. For them that would be the equivalent of someone earning $100k a year having to pay $500 to have a bank account. Note that often these low income accounts also have to pay when doing (some) transactions.
- dehrmann 7y agoIn Stockholm, I'd mostly be curious what the Romani do.
- kungtotte 7y agoGo to any number of places that still accept cash? Our major grocery store chains all still accept cash (ICA, Coop, Willys, Hemköp etc.) and at least ICA and Coop sells pretty much -everything- at their larger stores. They don't sell mattresses or furniture I guess, but you can go there with enough money and come out fully equipped to go camping for example. IKEA also accepts cash still, so you can buy your furniture there. Or even go get a nice meal there; a plate of meatballs and mashed potatoes costs 39 SEK (~3.7€, $4.1 USD). A BigMac&Co costs twice as much as a frame of reference. I (a Swede) am able to use cash every single day, and it's not an effort to do so.
- 2rsf 7y agoI guess you live near an IKEA store then. To get to IKEA and buy furniture you'll need to top up your SL card using card. In rural ("rural" meaning an hour commute from Stockholm) you'll find it even harder to get and use cash.
- kungtotte 7y agoI actually live 90 minutes outside Stockholm, going by public transport. According to https://sl.se https://sl.se it would take me 2 hours to IKEA Kungens Kurva. It's trivial to both get and use cash here.
- anonymou2 7y agoThey are discriminated against even more for the convenience of the rich.
- throw_543556 7y agoIn China, street beggars will have a sign with their QR code so you can donate to them electronically.
- willvarfar 7y agoThe article starts by using a part of central Stockholm as an example of a place where you can't pay by cash. How is it out of date?