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I think it has to do with the number of hospital beds per capita. South Korea has over 12 per 1000 but Italy only has 3.1. That is probably making a huge differ

I think it has to do with the number of hospital beds per capita. South Korea has over 12 per 1000 but Italy only has 3.1. That is probably making a huge difference. The US only has 2.8 per thousand which is horrifying, I hope the Italy situation doesn’t happen here.

umanwizard 7y ago
It is already happening in the US, and the countermeasures being taken are totally inadequate. Please do everything you can to avoid infecting yourself and others.
dmurray 7y ago
Wow, how are those numbers so different? You would think a functioning health care system in any developed country would be similar. The controversial topic in the US isn't really the quality or quantity of healthcare, it's about who pays for it. You might tell me it's because of something unique and bad in the US system, and we should see the Scandinavian countries to see how it should be done - but no, Denmark 2.6, Canada 2.5, Sweden 2.2 all have fewer beds per capita than the US. It's Japan and Korea who are the outliers at the top at 12 and 13. [0] It really must be a cultural/lifestyle thing. Would I really spend 4 times as much of my life in a hospital bed if I lived in Korea? And if so, would that really be a good thing? I assume usage is reasonably high in both, the beds don't sit empty waiting for a pandemic. Or you might remind me that those countries have famously old populations. But that's not it either. Japan has an old population, but still only twice as many 70+ as the USA (according to the population pyramids at [1]). And Korea has the same proportion as the US. It makes me wonder if they are comparing like with like: maybe some of the reported hospital beds in Korea would be considered to be in nursing homes or convalescence centres in Europe or the US. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_OECD_countries_by_hospital_beds https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_OECD_countries_by_hosp... [1] https://www.populationpyramid.net/republic-of-korea/2020/ https://www.populationpyramid.net/republic-of-korea/2020/
- mysterypie 7y ago
  It is indeed very strange that Korea and Japan should have 400% more hospital beds per capita than the U.S., Canada, or Scandanavia. I tried to dig into the OECD methodology[0] to see if they mentioned anything noteworthy, but nothing grabbed my attention. Their notes about the U.S.[1] and Korea[2] seem pretty similar. I'm wondering if in Japan and Korea, people stay in hospitals for longer periods for the same condition than in the U.S. For example, in the U.S. mothers giving birth would stay in the hospital for a week or more in 1950s from what I heard, but these days they are discharged after a couple days. What's a typical stay for uncomplicated childbirth in Japan and Korea? If it's a week or 10 days, then that would give a possible datapoint for having many more beds. [0] https://stats.oecd.org/index.aspx?DataSetCode=HEALTH_REAC https://stats.oecd.org/index.aspx?DataSetCode=HEALTH_REAC [1] Notes about the United States: Coverage: AHA-registered hospitals in the United States. U.S. hospitals located outside the United States are excluded. Includes all the AHA registered hospital beds for all types of hospitals. Estimates are for all AHA registered hospitals. AHA-registered hospitals include facilities such as short-term general, psychiatric hospitals, wards, rehabilitation institutes, maternity homes, tuberculosis hospitals, leprosariums and alcoholic treatment institutions. Estimates exclude U.S. associated areas such as Puerto Rico and AHA non-registered hospitals. [1] Notes about the Korea: Coverage: Hospitals: all sorts of medical institutions equipped with wards of at least 30 beds. Excludes day-care beds, emergency beds, surgical tables, recovery trolleys, delivery beds and cots for normal neonates.
  - dmurray 7y ago
    The methodology sounds quite similar, indeed. Maybe the stays are just longer. In Ireland we've seen the same trend in maternity hospitals: mother and baby used to stay for a week, now a couple of days. But I thought that was just best practice now and keeping them longer doesn't improve health outcomes.

umanwizard 7y ago

It is already happening in the US, and the countermeasures being taken are totally inadequate. Please do everything you can to avoid infecting yourself and others.

dmurray 7y ago

Wow, how are those numbers so different? You would think a functioning health care system in any developed country would be similar. The controversial topic in the US isn't really the quality or quantity of healthcare, it's about who pays for it. You might tell me it's because of something unique and bad in the US system, and we should see the Scandinavian countries to see how it should be done - but no, Denmark 2.6, Canada 2.5, Sweden 2.2 all have fewer beds per capita than the US. It's Japan and Korea who are the outliers at the top at 12 and 13. [0] It really must be a cultural/lifestyle thing. Would I really spend 4 times as much of my life in a hospital bed if I lived in Korea? And if so, would that really be a good thing? I assume usage is reasonably high in both, the beds don't sit empty waiting for a pandemic. Or you might remind me that those countries have famously old populations. But that's not it either. Japan has an old population, but still only twice as many 70+ as the USA (according to the population pyramids at [1]). And Korea has the same proportion as the US. It makes me wonder if they are comparing like with like: maybe some of the reported hospital beds in Korea would be considered to be in nursing homes or convalescence centres in Europe or the US. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_OECD_countries_by_hospital_beds https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_OECD_countries_by_hosp... [1] https://www.populationpyramid.net/republic-of-korea/2020/ https://www.populationpyramid.net/republic-of-korea/2020/

mysterypie 7y ago
It is indeed very strange that Korea and Japan should have 400% more hospital beds per capita than the U.S., Canada, or Scandanavia. I tried to dig into the OECD methodology[0] to see if they mentioned anything noteworthy, but nothing grabbed my attention. Their notes about the U.S.[1] and Korea[2] seem pretty similar. I'm wondering if in Japan and Korea, people stay in hospitals for longer periods for the same condition than in the U.S. For example, in the U.S. mothers giving birth would stay in the hospital for a week or more in 1950s from what I heard, but these days they are discharged after a couple days. What's a typical stay for uncomplicated childbirth in Japan and Korea? If it's a week or 10 days, then that would give a possible datapoint for having many more beds. [0] https://stats.oecd.org/index.aspx?DataSetCode=HEALTH_REAC https://stats.oecd.org/index.aspx?DataSetCode=HEALTH_REAC [1] Notes about the United States: Coverage: AHA-registered hospitals in the United States. U.S. hospitals located outside the United States are excluded. Includes all the AHA registered hospital beds for all types of hospitals. Estimates are for all AHA registered hospitals. AHA-registered hospitals include facilities such as short-term general, psychiatric hospitals, wards, rehabilitation institutes, maternity homes, tuberculosis hospitals, leprosariums and alcoholic treatment institutions. Estimates exclude U.S. associated areas such as Puerto Rico and AHA non-registered hospitals. [1] Notes about the Korea: Coverage: Hospitals: all sorts of medical institutions equipped with wards of at least 30 beds. Excludes day-care beds, emergency beds, surgical tables, recovery trolleys, delivery beds and cots for normal neonates.
- dmurray 7y ago
  The methodology sounds quite similar, indeed. Maybe the stays are just longer. In Ireland we've seen the same trend in maternity hospitals: mother and baby used to stay for a week, now a couple of days. But I thought that was just best practice now and keeping them longer doesn't improve health outcomes.