7 ms·

For whom is it not worth it? Software devs? Are they representative of the average white collar? I couldn’t live without excel.

adjkant 7y ago
Sheets will fit a lot of excel use cases for those not doing serious heavy lifting with it. FWIW, I'm a software engineer and our IT department actually let people opt out of Microsoft office if they weren't using it to save money, and encouraging people to use Google Docs/Sheets (as most do anyways). I'm guessing a good deal of software engineers did that but there are plenty of non-engineers that probably also did outside of finance / some sales people.
- prepend 7y ago
  I am a big fan of sheets, but it is not Excel. Some of the functions are missing after all these years, not to mention charts and pivots. I think Google gave up on trying to compete with excel on features.
  - earthshot 7y ago
    Sheets has had pivots for years. It's become very rare that Sheets doesn't have a feature I want, whereas it's become more common that I'm in Excel and wish I could use Sheets' query function.
    - prepend 7y ago
      Pivots exist, but aren’t nearly as functional.
  - twojacobtwo 7y ago
    Sheets has charts and pivot tables. It definitely lacks some features of excel, but it also has some nice new additions that I love so far - e.g. Showing the return value of a formula while still editing.
    - prepend 7y ago
      Sorry, I didn’t mean that sheets doesn’t have charts. I meant that the charts in sheets are missing substantial features that have been in excel for years.
  - nwallin 7y ago
    The overwhelming majority of people who double click the Excel icon would be equally well served by sheets or localc. It's fine if you're an analyst and are more productive with Excel, but if you're the rest of us, it doesn't matter what spreadsheet app you use. For most of us, a spreadsheet is a spreadsheet and don't need anything more complicated than sum(). In most companies, it's silly to have Office installed by default for all employees. If you need it, fine, put in a request and we'll get it done. (please note there are a few things I'm NOT saying: 1) localc or sheets are as good as Excel for all users. 2) companies should save money by never paying for Excel, even if an employee wants to use Excel. 3) all companies should follow the rule of thumb outlined in my second paragraph.)
    - anthonypasq 7y ago
      i think you are severely underestimating the amount of people whose entire job is excel
    - prepend 7y ago
      You’re right for creating. But many people read spreadsheets that are created by someone who needs those functions. If only 1% of spreadsheets use that function, the entire organization needs it. Training users how to double click icons is surprisingly hard. Trying to train them how to open some spreadsheets in Sheets and some Excel is a support nightmare. Maybe I could see an argument for localc, but sheets is actually pretty costly at $50-150/year. I think it’s fine for non-business people to just use the free sheets, but an org would have to not care about excel to use sheets for everyone. With 365, it’s sort of a no-brainer as while it’s not as good as sheets for accessibility, if I’m going to pay $100/year/user then it’s easier to plan for 365, than sheets, I think.
      - adjkant 7y ago
        > Maybe I could see an argument for localc, but sheets is actually pretty costly at $50-150/year. Where are you getting that from? I see Enterprise GSuite at $25 a user (max) and that includes mail and drive. The cost of sheets here is probably $10 or less. It does seem like the cost is in line, but if you're already paying for Gmail/Drive or other Gsuite things then saving the office 365 cost absolutely helps and Sheets is essentially a no-cost add-on. https://gsuite.google.com/pricing.html https://gsuite.google.com/pricing.html https://products.office.com/en-us/compare-all-microsoft-office-products?&activetab=tab:primaryr2 https://products.office.com/en-us/compare-all-microsoft-offi...
  - swiley 7y ago
    Meh, you should probably be using either python or an RDBMS. Most non trivial applications of excel come from a lack of IS knowledge IMO. It’s easy to do but it makes everyone around you less happy.
    - prepend 7y ago
      I disagree as both a python and rdbms user. Excel is great for millions of one off use cases by users who don’t know how to program and don’t know sql and/or have access to rdbms infrastructure. And I think that’s ok. If I want to create a reproducible data process then I’ll build it in python and maybe some data share or database. But tons of work can be done in excel that isn’t worth the cost to build in something else. I don’t include Macros, if I’m programming in Excel, I should probably do that in something that is better designed.
jonathankoren 7y ago
I use spreadsheet programs all the time during software development. it's a great way to quickly look at data or do some calculations. I use Numbers. Is it as good as Excel, not really, but it's good enough (although data import is still a bit lacking), and it's not a subscription.
- bdcravens 7y ago
  I have a data import task I run about once a week - I've found Numbers does a better job not screwing the date field up I add than Excel does when I export to CSV (for import into our relational database)

adjkant 7y ago

Sheets will fit a lot of excel use cases for those not doing serious heavy lifting with it. FWIW, I'm a software engineer and our IT department actually let people opt out of Microsoft office if they weren't using it to save money, and encouraging people to use Google Docs/Sheets (as most do anyways). I'm guessing a good deal of software engineers did that but there are plenty of non-engineers that probably also did outside of finance / some sales people.

prepend 7y ago
I am a big fan of sheets, but it is not Excel. Some of the functions are missing after all these years, not to mention charts and pivots. I think Google gave up on trying to compete with excel on features.
- earthshot 7y ago
  Sheets has had pivots for years. It's become very rare that Sheets doesn't have a feature I want, whereas it's become more common that I'm in Excel and wish I could use Sheets' query function.
  - prepend 7y ago
    Pivots exist, but aren’t nearly as functional.
- twojacobtwo 7y ago
  Sheets has charts and pivot tables. It definitely lacks some features of excel, but it also has some nice new additions that I love so far - e.g. Showing the return value of a formula while still editing.
  - prepend 7y ago
    Sorry, I didn’t mean that sheets doesn’t have charts. I meant that the charts in sheets are missing substantial features that have been in excel for years.
- nwallin 7y ago
  The overwhelming majority of people who double click the Excel icon would be equally well served by sheets or localc. It's fine if you're an analyst and are more productive with Excel, but if you're the rest of us, it doesn't matter what spreadsheet app you use. For most of us, a spreadsheet is a spreadsheet and don't need anything more complicated than sum(). In most companies, it's silly to have Office installed by default for all employees. If you need it, fine, put in a request and we'll get it done. (please note there are a few things I'm NOT saying: 1) localc or sheets are as good as Excel for all users. 2) companies should save money by never paying for Excel, even if an employee wants to use Excel. 3) all companies should follow the rule of thumb outlined in my second paragraph.)
  - anthonypasq 7y ago
    i think you are severely underestimating the amount of people whose entire job is excel
  - prepend 7y ago
    You’re right for creating. But many people read spreadsheets that are created by someone who needs those functions. If only 1% of spreadsheets use that function, the entire organization needs it. Training users how to double click icons is surprisingly hard. Trying to train them how to open some spreadsheets in Sheets and some Excel is a support nightmare. Maybe I could see an argument for localc, but sheets is actually pretty costly at $50-150/year. I think it’s fine for non-business people to just use the free sheets, but an org would have to not care about excel to use sheets for everyone. With 365, it’s sort of a no-brainer as while it’s not as good as sheets for accessibility, if I’m going to pay $100/year/user then it’s easier to plan for 365, than sheets, I think.
    - adjkant 7y ago
      > Maybe I could see an argument for localc, but sheets is actually pretty costly at $50-150/year. Where are you getting that from? I see Enterprise GSuite at $25 a user (max) and that includes mail and drive. The cost of sheets here is probably $10 or less. It does seem like the cost is in line, but if you're already paying for Gmail/Drive or other Gsuite things then saving the office 365 cost absolutely helps and Sheets is essentially a no-cost add-on. https://gsuite.google.com/pricing.html https://gsuite.google.com/pricing.html https://products.office.com/en-us/compare-all-microsoft-office-products?&activetab=tab:primaryr2 https://products.office.com/en-us/compare-all-microsoft-offi...
- swiley 7y ago
  Meh, you should probably be using either python or an RDBMS. Most non trivial applications of excel come from a lack of IS knowledge IMO. It’s easy to do but it makes everyone around you less happy.
  - prepend 7y ago
    I disagree as both a python and rdbms user. Excel is great for millions of one off use cases by users who don’t know how to program and don’t know sql and/or have access to rdbms infrastructure. And I think that’s ok. If I want to create a reproducible data process then I’ll build it in python and maybe some data share or database. But tons of work can be done in excel that isn’t worth the cost to build in something else. I don’t include Macros, if I’m programming in Excel, I should probably do that in something that is better designed.

jonathankoren 7y ago

I use spreadsheet programs all the time during software development. it's a great way to quickly look at data or do some calculations. I use Numbers. Is it as good as Excel, not really, but it's good enough (although data import is still a bit lacking), and it's not a subscription.

bdcravens 7y ago
I have a data import task I run about once a week - I've found Numbers does a better job not screwing the date field up I add than Excel does when I export to CSV (for import into our relational database)