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As a kid my dad commuted to work on a bike and he made me take a class at a local bike store with actual course materials and a totally-not-official bike licens

As a kid my dad commuted to work on a bike and he made me take a class at a local bike store with actual course materials and a totally-not-official bike license before he let me ride on the street. In the late 1970s-early 1980s when cyclists started calling for bike lanes and changes to laws, part of the deal was that cyclists would adopt smart habits AKA the rules of the road, that helped them become part of a shared car-bike system. Things like wearing helmets, signaling turns, riding in the same direction as traffic. A lot of the rules are designed to make cyclists' behavior less unpredictable and thus safer. I see this system breaking down when cyclists do dumb things like riding the wrong way on a street and swerving across lanes. (I'm probably showing my age but I mostly notice this from fixed-gear cyclists). As a mostly car driver myself now, I want to ensure that bikes are safe. But it requires the cooperation

jolmg 7y ago
> riding in the same direction as traffic I've never understood how riding in the same direction is safer. The rider can't see me, so it feels like I'm creeping up on them. I feel there should be some degree of coordination when a car is approaching a bike, some eye contact, you know? But that can't be done when they're riding in the same direction. I've never ridden a bike in traffic before, but I'm sure I'd feel really nervous to have an unknown set of cars approaching me from behind and passing by me unexpectedly. Is it about reducing the relative velocity between them? I'm sure it's still significantly high even when going in the same direction. EDIT: Here, I'm mostly thinking in the context of highways. It may be that the rule makes more sense in a city- or suburban-like environment.
- lutorm 7y ago
  I'm not sure it matters much on an uninterrupted stretch of road (except you conflict with the bicycles being on the right side of the road...) But when you enter an intersection from the opposite direction the drivers are expecting you to, it's pretty clear that it's not safer.
  - tropo 7y ago
    Drivers expect people to enter intersections from both directions on the crosswalks, which is where normal non-athlete bicycle users need to be for safety. This is a solved problem if we keep all the small unarmored travelers (walking, bicycling, crawling, etc.) together on the sidewalk and crosswalk.
    - saltcured 7y ago
      As someone who has witnessed this accident or near-accident unfold several times, the difference is speed how quickly the opposing cyclist or pedestrian moves from invisible or out-of-range to collision range. Bicycles and other wheeled vehicles like scooters and skateboards move much faster than pedestrians. Even a conscientious driver who watches for pedestrians may miss a cyclist who is riding "the wrong way" in the time it takes the driver to swivel their attention among the various hazard zones that need to be checked when making turns. A driver needs to check both ways in a sequence, with the final visual check being for traffic in the incoming lanes they are about to enter or cross. They check for pedestrians coming the opposite way first, but the slow rate of pedestrian movement means that the conditions do not change dramatically while the driver attention switches to the opposite direction. However, a cyclist/skater/scooter flying into the picture from the blind side is at great risk of collision with the driver who is now checking the opposite direction and initiating their maneuver.
      - tropo 7y ago
        There is no "flying into the picture from the blind side" with normal bicyclists. They are timid and non-athletic. They often cross roads with their feet on the ground, walking the bicycle across. If they ride across the street, it is after stopping to wait for traffic. There would be many more of these normal bicyclists if they didn't have to choose between legal danger (on sidewalk) and extreme physical danger (on road).
        saltcured 7y ago
        The accidents and near accidents I have witnessed in Los Angeles are people on wheels moving at ~10 MPH or higher against the flow of traffic on the shoulder or in a crosswalk. Dramatically faster than a walking pedestrian. People moving at these speeds on wheels also make unwise maneuvers to conserve momentum, unlike most joggers. As a third party observing several of these events, I noticed that the cyclist/scooter rider/skateboarder more often accelerates to attempt to make a stale light as well, quite the opposite of normal pedestrian patterns. This has only gotten worse in recent years, with many more people having motor-assisted wheeled contraptions and not a lot of common sense about their newfound speed.
- jefurii 7y ago
  Yep, relative velocity is one of the main considerations. The other would be to have cyclists following the same basic set of rules as cars, making their behavior more predictable to auto drivers.
- tropo 7y ago
  It serves to maintain the legal fiction that a bicycle is an automobile. Strong athletes, who are the people involved in crafting bicycle legislation, prefer it that way. Pedestrians also prefer it that way. It does a huge disservice to less-athletic people who might benefit from bicycle use. These people are far too slow to be in the road. They really need to be on the sidewalk. They could go in the road opposite to traffic, pulling off whenever a car approaches. Either way, they would walk the bicycle through intersections. The typical bicycle user is far more like a pedestrian than like a car, and ought to be legislated as such, but our laws were written for the most serious and dedicated bicycle users.

jolmg 7y ago

> riding in the same direction as traffic I've never understood how riding in the same direction is safer. The rider can't see me, so it feels like I'm creeping up on them. I feel there should be some degree of coordination when a car is approaching a bike, some eye contact, you know? But that can't be done when they're riding in the same direction. I've never ridden a bike in traffic before, but I'm sure I'd feel really nervous to have an unknown set of cars approaching me from behind and passing by me unexpectedly. Is it about reducing the relative velocity between them? I'm sure it's still significantly high even when going in the same direction. EDIT: Here, I'm mostly thinking in the context of highways. It may be that the rule makes more sense in a city- or suburban-like environment.

lutorm 7y ago
I'm not sure it matters much on an uninterrupted stretch of road (except you conflict with the bicycles being on the right side of the road...) But when you enter an intersection from the opposite direction the drivers are expecting you to, it's pretty clear that it's not safer.
- tropo 7y ago
  Drivers expect people to enter intersections from both directions on the crosswalks, which is where normal non-athlete bicycle users need to be for safety. This is a solved problem if we keep all the small unarmored travelers (walking, bicycling, crawling, etc.) together on the sidewalk and crosswalk.
  - saltcured 7y ago
    As someone who has witnessed this accident or near-accident unfold several times, the difference is speed how quickly the opposing cyclist or pedestrian moves from invisible or out-of-range to collision range. Bicycles and other wheeled vehicles like scooters and skateboards move much faster than pedestrians. Even a conscientious driver who watches for pedestrians may miss a cyclist who is riding "the wrong way" in the time it takes the driver to swivel their attention among the various hazard zones that need to be checked when making turns. A driver needs to check both ways in a sequence, with the final visual check being for traffic in the incoming lanes they are about to enter or cross. They check for pedestrians coming the opposite way first, but the slow rate of pedestrian movement means that the conditions do not change dramatically while the driver attention switches to the opposite direction. However, a cyclist/skater/scooter flying into the picture from the blind side is at great risk of collision with the driver who is now checking the opposite direction and initiating their maneuver.
    - tropo 7y ago
      There is no "flying into the picture from the blind side" with normal bicyclists. They are timid and non-athletic. They often cross roads with their feet on the ground, walking the bicycle across. If they ride across the street, it is after stopping to wait for traffic. There would be many more of these normal bicyclists if they didn't have to choose between legal danger (on sidewalk) and extreme physical danger (on road).
      - saltcured 7y ago
        The accidents and near accidents I have witnessed in Los Angeles are people on wheels moving at ~10 MPH or higher against the flow of traffic on the shoulder or in a crosswalk. Dramatically faster than a walking pedestrian. People moving at these speeds on wheels also make unwise maneuvers to conserve momentum, unlike most joggers. As a third party observing several of these events, I noticed that the cyclist/scooter rider/skateboarder more often accelerates to attempt to make a stale light as well, quite the opposite of normal pedestrian patterns. This has only gotten worse in recent years, with many more people having motor-assisted wheeled contraptions and not a lot of common sense about their newfound speed.
jefurii 7y ago
Yep, relative velocity is one of the main considerations. The other would be to have cyclists following the same basic set of rules as cars, making their behavior more predictable to auto drivers.
tropo 7y ago
It serves to maintain the legal fiction that a bicycle is an automobile. Strong athletes, who are the people involved in crafting bicycle legislation, prefer it that way. Pedestrians also prefer it that way. It does a huge disservice to less-athletic people who might benefit from bicycle use. These people are far too slow to be in the road. They really need to be on the sidewalk. They could go in the road opposite to traffic, pulling off whenever a car approaches. Either way, they would walk the bicycle through intersections. The typical bicycle user is far more like a pedestrian than like a car, and ought to be legislated as such, but our laws were written for the most serious and dedicated bicycle users.