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I really appreciate articles like this that call out our how off the walls absurd American car culture is. As someone who bikes to work, almost everyone I've me

I really appreciate articles like this that call out our how off the walls absurd American car culture is. As someone who bikes to work, almost everyone I've met that bikes has developed a deep hatred (and fear) of car drivers (whose sense of entitlement has gone off the rails). Biking to work, you will on a regular basis encounter drivers that yell at you, try to run you off the road, floor the car by you (even when there is a red traffic light ahead)

thedance 7y ago
Don't forget coal-rolling.
samcheng 7y ago
I've been yelled at by drivers while riding on a designated bike boulevard with my 4-year old son to preschool. "Get a car" - seriously?
- c0nsumer 7y ago
  Yes. It happens. I've had the same yelled at me, and been cursed at and flipped off (middle finger) when: - Riding on a bike/pedestrian overpass going OVER an intersection. - Riding on a bike path that is separated by grass from and parallel to a road. - Waiting at a crosswalk light for my turn to cross an intersection (while traveling on a bike path). Cyclists are a frequent place for irrationally angry folks in cars to let out their anger.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
d1zzy 7y ago
I've been biking to work >10 miles each way for about 9 years now and I understand where this is coming from: when an inattentive/careless driver cuts us off it feels as a personal attack, because if an accident happens the results are equivalent. This means it's natural to start feeling personally targeted when drivers do stupid things around us in traffic. But I'd caution letting our natural feelings drive our opinions. Not all drivers do those things and I suspect most of those that do have no idea of the danger or the threat they create. It's not malice so it shouldn't be payed back with hatred, especially not generalized to the entire driving population. All that does is to further the "us vs them" mentality which is already a huge problem when trying to make drivers understand how they should act around bikes, it's not helping.
golemiprague 7y ago
I have moved from a bike riding culture type of country to a suburban car driving country and I am also finding myself angry with bike riders while driving. In most bike riding countries the bikes don't mix with cars, they either got their own lanes like in Holland or intermix with foot traffic like in Japan. People drive on the road only when it is relatively empty from cars. But in my current country the riders ride on any road, sometimes on the side, sometimes as block of riders. It is more sporty type of riding rather than a commuter type of riding. Mixing it with cars cause a lot of stress to the car drivers because they have to slow or take over and be extra careful all the time. It is just annoying me both as a driver and as a bike rider. There is so much space on the footpath but I must ride on the road and try to keep up with much faster traffic.
- d1zzy 7y ago
  That definitely explains why some drivers may feel angry/frustrated but note that it's not an excuse. Legally and morally speaking bikes have equal rights to the roads. If those drivers drive around smaller/slower cars do they get equally frustrated/angry? Even if they do, what gives them the right too get angry at other participants in traffic that are legally using the road? As to why in the US a lot more bike commuters are also into recreational biking, it's because of a feedback loop created in combination with bad bike supporting infrastructure and urban planning: the current situation means that in many places commuters have to share the road with cars, which means that only those that really like bike riding and/or are comfortable with a high level of stress/risk do it which, as it happens, it overlaps largely with the traits of those that enjoy recreational biking. With a lot of these riders on the road drivers get a sense of "these bikers are enjoying themselves and annoying me at the same time so they don't deserve respect" which further reinforces the current situation.
mseidl 7y ago
I'm a German that used to live in the US for a while, in Seattle. And people would go crazy when they found out I used public transportation. Usually a disgusted reply: "But there are homeless people on it."
RickS 7y ago
Preface: there's no excuse for drivers being assholes to bikers (yelling, speeding, worse). But as a driver, our resentment for bike commuters doesn't just come from entitlement (though somewhat, yes). It comes from fear, just like yours. I really don't want to accidentally kill anyone, and bikers are one of the only encounters in my daily life when I feel like that might happen. I wish it were safer for bikers. Our infrastructure is terrible. The bike lanes are spotty and bad when they exist. Lane separation is more symbolic than physical. I get that bikers want to be on the road anyway, and that conceptually, it should be a shared space. But the reality is that our roads are ill suited for the task, catastrophically and obviously dangerous, and people insist on trying it anyway because in principle, it should work. It feels like bikers think they're the only ones shouldering the risk of having their lives destroyed if things go sideways. As a driver, that's not how it feels. Maiming or killing a biker would be strictly worse for the biker, but I'm not excited about living in the aftermath either. It feels like bikers increase the risk of a terrible thing happening to both of us. For me, that's what makes it a moral gray area: bikers definitely have the environmental upper hand. But they do it by engaging in activity that is borderline reckless given the reality of American roads. I find it difficult to enthusiastically encourage that. Open to having my views changed on this.
- jefurii 7y ago
  As a kid my dad commuted to work on a bike and he made me take a class at a local bike store with actual course materials and a totally-not-official bike license before he let me ride on the street. In the late 1970s-early 1980s when cyclists started calling for bike lanes and changes to laws, part of the deal was that cyclists would adopt smart habits AKA the rules of the road, that helped them become part of a shared car-bike system. Things like wearing helmets, signaling turns, riding in the same direction as traffic. A lot of the rules are designed to make cyclists' behavior less unpredictable and thus safer. I see this system breaking down when cyclists do dumb things like riding the wrong way on a street and swerving across lanes. (I'm probably showing my age but I mostly notice this from fixed-gear cyclists). As a mostly car driver myself now, I want to ensure that bikes are safe. But it requires the cooperation
  - 7y ago

thedance 7y ago

Don't forget coal-rolling.

samcheng 7y ago

I've been yelled at by drivers while riding on a designated bike boulevard with my 4-year old son to preschool. "Get a car" - seriously?

c0nsumer 7y ago
Yes. It happens. I've had the same yelled at me, and been cursed at and flipped off (middle finger) when: - Riding on a bike/pedestrian overpass going OVER an intersection. - Riding on a bike path that is separated by grass from and parallel to a road. - Waiting at a crosswalk light for my turn to cross an intersection (while traveling on a bike path). Cyclists are a frequent place for irrationally angry folks in cars to let out their anger.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]

d1zzy 7y ago

I've been biking to work >10 miles each way for about 9 years now and I understand where this is coming from: when an inattentive/careless driver cuts us off it feels as a personal attack, because if an accident happens the results are equivalent. This means it's natural to start feeling personally targeted when drivers do stupid things around us in traffic. But I'd caution letting our natural feelings drive our opinions. Not all drivers do those things and I suspect most of those that do have no idea of the danger or the threat they create. It's not malice so it shouldn't be payed back with hatred, especially not generalized to the entire driving population. All that does is to further the "us vs them" mentality which is already a huge problem when trying to make drivers understand how they should act around bikes, it's not helping.

golemiprague 7y ago

I have moved from a bike riding culture type of country to a suburban car driving country and I am also finding myself angry with bike riders while driving. In most bike riding countries the bikes don't mix with cars, they either got their own lanes like in Holland or intermix with foot traffic like in Japan. People drive on the road only when it is relatively empty from cars. But in my current country the riders ride on any road, sometimes on the side, sometimes as block of riders. It is more sporty type of riding rather than a commuter type of riding. Mixing it with cars cause a lot of stress to the car drivers because they have to slow or take over and be extra careful all the time. It is just annoying me both as a driver and as a bike rider. There is so much space on the footpath but I must ride on the road and try to keep up with much faster traffic.

d1zzy 7y ago
That definitely explains why some drivers may feel angry/frustrated but note that it's not an excuse. Legally and morally speaking bikes have equal rights to the roads. If those drivers drive around smaller/slower cars do they get equally frustrated/angry? Even if they do, what gives them the right too get angry at other participants in traffic that are legally using the road? As to why in the US a lot more bike commuters are also into recreational biking, it's because of a feedback loop created in combination with bad bike supporting infrastructure and urban planning: the current situation means that in many places commuters have to share the road with cars, which means that only those that really like bike riding and/or are comfortable with a high level of stress/risk do it which, as it happens, it overlaps largely with the traits of those that enjoy recreational biking. With a lot of these riders on the road drivers get a sense of "these bikers are enjoying themselves and annoying me at the same time so they don't deserve respect" which further reinforces the current situation.

mseidl 7y ago

I'm a German that used to live in the US for a while, in Seattle. And people would go crazy when they found out I used public transportation. Usually a disgusted reply: "But there are homeless people on it."

RickS 7y ago

Preface: there's no excuse for drivers being assholes to bikers (yelling, speeding, worse). But as a driver, our resentment for bike commuters doesn't just come from entitlement (though somewhat, yes). It comes from fear, just like yours. I really don't want to accidentally kill anyone, and bikers are one of the only encounters in my daily life when I feel like that might happen. I wish it were safer for bikers. Our infrastructure is terrible. The bike lanes are spotty and bad when they exist. Lane separation is more symbolic than physical. I get that bikers want to be on the road anyway, and that conceptually, it should be a shared space. But the reality is that our roads are ill suited for the task, catastrophically and obviously dangerous, and people insist on trying it anyway because in principle, it should work. It feels like bikers think they're the only ones shouldering the risk of having their lives destroyed if things go sideways. As a driver, that's not how it feels. Maiming or killing a biker would be strictly worse for the biker, but I'm not excited about living in the aftermath either. It feels like bikers increase the risk of a terrible thing happening to both of us. For me, that's what makes it a moral gray area: bikers definitely have the environmental upper hand. But they do it by engaging in activity that is borderline reckless given the reality of American roads. I find it difficult to enthusiastically encourage that. Open to having my views changed on this.

jefurii 7y ago
As a kid my dad commuted to work on a bike and he made me take a class at a local bike store with actual course materials and a totally-not-official bike license before he let me ride on the street. In the late 1970s-early 1980s when cyclists started calling for bike lanes and changes to laws, part of the deal was that cyclists would adopt smart habits AKA the rules of the road, that helped them become part of a shared car-bike system. Things like wearing helmets, signaling turns, riding in the same direction as traffic. A lot of the rules are designed to make cyclists' behavior less unpredictable and thus safer. I see this system breaking down when cyclists do dumb things like riding the wrong way on a street and swerving across lanes. (I'm probably showing my age but I mostly notice this from fixed-gear cyclists). As a mostly car driver myself now, I want to ensure that bikes are safe. But it requires the cooperation
- 7y ago