4 ms·

> Your hardware vendor can screw you over entirely without TPM, TEE, secure elements and the like. Yes they can, but as I understand it they are using TPM to s

> Your hardware vendor can screw you over entirely without TPM, TEE, secure elements and the like. Yes they can, but as I understand it they are using TPM to screw us over, hence people celebrating its being popped. No misunderstanding of trusted computing necessary: there aren't, in practice, other vendors to choose from here.

lxgr 7y ago
Could you elaborate on the ways that people are being screwed over by TPM? I do see that the existence of both trusted and untrusted systems could exert some pressure on consumers to adopt the latter, due to the unavailability of certain services on the former (e.g. DRM, banking apps on rooted Android phones etc). The danger here is a loss of "freedom to tinker", which I do appreciate very much, and I share that concern. But has that actually happened with TPM?
- ghostpepper 7y ago
  What about the fact that the newest Intel CPU that can run Coreboot is from 2012 since all the subsequent ones have been locked by Intel? Isn't the TPM directly responsible for loss of that freedom to tinker?
  - wmf 7y ago
    Coreboot runs on the latest Intel CPUs (and work is underway for CPUs that haven't even been released yet) but it uses binary blobs. Those blobs have nothing to do with TPMs, the ME, or whatever.
  - floatboth 7y ago
    As already mentioned the coreboot bit is false, but also: the TPM is a PASSIVE component. It only responds to your requests and you can do cool things with it. https://media.ccc.de/v/36c3-10564-hacking_with_a_tpm https://media.ccc.de/v/36c3-10564-hacking_with_a_tpm
  - mokus 7y ago
    Just a few months ago I bought a comet lake laptop that shipped with coreboot, so I have no idea what you’re talking about here.
- hedora 7y ago
  Certain 4K/ HDR content is only available on PCs if you use edge.
  - bepvte 7y ago
    Thats not TPM.
johncolanduoni 7y ago
I'm curious, where are TPMs being used to screw people over in your opinion?

lxgr 7y ago

Could you elaborate on the ways that people are being screwed over by TPM? I do see that the existence of both trusted and untrusted systems could exert some pressure on consumers to adopt the latter, due to the unavailability of certain services on the former (e.g. DRM, banking apps on rooted Android phones etc). The danger here is a loss of "freedom to tinker", which I do appreciate very much, and I share that concern. But has that actually happened with TPM?

ghostpepper 7y ago
What about the fact that the newest Intel CPU that can run Coreboot is from 2012 since all the subsequent ones have been locked by Intel? Isn't the TPM directly responsible for loss of that freedom to tinker?
- wmf 7y ago
  Coreboot runs on the latest Intel CPUs (and work is underway for CPUs that haven't even been released yet) but it uses binary blobs. Those blobs have nothing to do with TPMs, the ME, or whatever.
- floatboth 7y ago
  As already mentioned the coreboot bit is false, but also: the TPM is a PASSIVE component. It only responds to your requests and you can do cool things with it. https://media.ccc.de/v/36c3-10564-hacking_with_a_tpm https://media.ccc.de/v/36c3-10564-hacking_with_a_tpm
- mokus 7y ago
  Just a few months ago I bought a comet lake laptop that shipped with coreboot, so I have no idea what you’re talking about here.
hedora 7y ago
Certain 4K/ HDR content is only available on PCs if you use edge.
- bepvte 7y ago
  Thats not TPM.

johncolanduoni 7y ago

I'm curious, where are TPMs being used to screw people over in your opinion?