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No person who was born rich has to learn skills to avoid destitution. And poverty isn't the natural condition for humans any more than it is for cats, or any ot

No person who was born rich has to learn skills to avoid destitution. And poverty isn't the natural condition for humans any more than it is for cats, or any other animal.

captainredbeard 7y ago
Not true.
tenpies 7y ago
> No person who was born rich has to learn skills to avoid destitution. I can only speak for the Western tradition, but for most of history, the wealthy took great pride in making sure their male children were at least trained in soldiering, knew the family business, and were well-educated. It was the bare minimum to be considered a gentleman.
- munk-a 7y ago
  And, if that child flubbed all those skills, then they'd skill live a comfortable and rich life, there just might not be much left for the next generation. Also, how is learning how to fence a good skill to avoid destitution? The rich had leisure time and invested that time in cultural skills, this isn't actually a bad thing either - it's my hope that everyone can afford to develop a hobby and be creative in their life... but that has nothing to do with avoiding destitution.
easytiger 7y ago
Yea sure. No one ever blew a fortune
- mola 7y ago
  It's rare. How you are born pretty much sets your future in stone. Those rags to riches stories and vice versa are the outliers
  - easytiger 7y ago
    And?
bluGill 7y ago
Books are filled with once great families with a name, and nothing else, struggling to survive. It is common for someone to be born rich, gamble it all away and leave nothing (other than maybe an education) to the kids. There are rich who live their children much, but most children of the rich who remain rich have to work to stay rich. Yes there is a big advantage that being born to wealth gives to keeping it - but that advantage isn't any guarantee. I have in my lifetime seen plenty of starving cats - we took pity on them and took them in. I've seen evidence of mass freezing to death in wild animals after the herd eats all the food.
wccrawford 7y ago
Rich people have other reasons to learn skills. And I think the hope with UBI is that people in general will find enough reasons that they continue to learn skills, and not just live off society as purposeful freeloaders. I used to think that there are some types of people that would freeload whenever they possibly could. Then a young family member proved that they will basically do whatever they can to avoid even finishing school, let alone getting a job and keeping it. I would like to think that people would learn hobbies and create art and science for the sheer joy of it if they didn't have to put food on the table... But the truth seems to be that there are many people who would just consume the massive amount of entertainment that we now produce and no contribute anything of their own, ever.
csa 7y ago
I’m guessing you don’t know many people who were born into wealth. The skill that they must learn is how not to lose the money. This skill is difficult to sustain over more than a generation or two — grandparent earns it, parent might keep it, child usually ends up destitute both in terms of financial capital and social capital. If the “child” in this scenario is lucky, they have some social capital that will save them, and their branch of the family tree is at an inflection point. Seeing a family self-destruct like this is tough to watch and surprisingly common within that class of people.
- munk-a 7y ago
  That skill is so trivial to learn compared with the skill of surviving and building up income from nothing. Rich people literally just need to not be complete idiots - if you've got 300 million in the bank put it in some low interest stable investment and you'd be able to live off the investment earnings alone. There, I just explained all the life skills you need as a rich person - there is no equivalence between the road the rich and the poor need to walk to survive.
  - csa 7y ago
    I am guessing that you do not know many people who were born into wealth. There are existential questions that gnaw at some of these people that hinder them from taking the seemingly simple path that you have presented. I would also argue that it is not as easy as you would think to park millions in some "low interest stable investment" that also does not have substantial (for generational wealth) counter-party risk. > there is no equivalence between the road the rich and the poor need to walk to survive I agree with this, but I think you are being overly dismissive of the skills that someone born into a wealthy family needs to keep that wealth. It requires a healthy amount of self-awareness among other things.
    - munk-a 7y ago
      Being a human being isn't easy, many people rich and poor struggle with deep philosophical questions, some people get devoured by questions of relative wealth even when they have very little just because they're among so many people poorer off than them. That doesn't change the fact that being rich is easy mode for life. Yes, it isn't just a stroll in the continuous orgy park of happiness and funtimes, but there are a lot of difficulties in life that arise out of not having enough money, rich people essentially get a pass on all of these problems. So, while I'm not saying that rich people never struggle with being a human being and all the existential doubt that can accompany that. I am saying that they never struggle to eat. I think everyone has their own struggles through life and really don't want to minimize problems that can arise in dealing with human issues like poor mental health - but seriously, everything is on easy mode for the rich, and if you don't think that's the case then you should really reach out to other communities and see what low income people have to deal with on a daily basis.
defaultprimate 7y ago
That's why 10% of people born in the top quintile fall into the bottom one in adulthood, right?

No person who was born rich has to learn skills to avoid destitution. And poverty isn't the natural condition for humans any more than it is for cats, or any other animal.

captainredbeard 7y ago

Not true.

tenpies 7y ago

> No person who was born rich has to learn skills to avoid destitution. I can only speak for the Western tradition, but for most of history, the wealthy took great pride in making sure their male children were at least trained in soldiering, knew the family business, and were well-educated. It was the bare minimum to be considered a gentleman.

munk-a 7y ago
And, if that child flubbed all those skills, then they'd skill live a comfortable and rich life, there just might not be much left for the next generation. Also, how is learning how to fence a good skill to avoid destitution? The rich had leisure time and invested that time in cultural skills, this isn't actually a bad thing either - it's my hope that everyone can afford to develop a hobby and be creative in their life... but that has nothing to do with avoiding destitution.

easytiger 7y ago

Yea sure. No one ever blew a fortune

mola 7y ago
It's rare. How you are born pretty much sets your future in stone. Those rags to riches stories and vice versa are the outliers
- easytiger 7y ago
  And?

bluGill 7y ago

Books are filled with once great families with a name, and nothing else, struggling to survive. It is common for someone to be born rich, gamble it all away and leave nothing (other than maybe an education) to the kids. There are rich who live their children much, but most children of the rich who remain rich have to work to stay rich. Yes there is a big advantage that being born to wealth gives to keeping it - but that advantage isn't any guarantee. I have in my lifetime seen plenty of starving cats - we took pity on them and took them in. I've seen evidence of mass freezing to death in wild animals after the herd eats all the food.

wccrawford 7y ago

Rich people have other reasons to learn skills. And I think the hope with UBI is that people in general will find enough reasons that they continue to learn skills, and not just live off society as purposeful freeloaders. I used to think that there are some types of people that would freeload whenever they possibly could. Then a young family member proved that they will basically do whatever they can to avoid even finishing school, let alone getting a job and keeping it. I would like to think that people would learn hobbies and create art and science for the sheer joy of it if they didn't have to put food on the table... But the truth seems to be that there are many people who would just consume the massive amount of entertainment that we now produce and no contribute anything of their own, ever.

csa 7y ago

I’m guessing you don’t know many people who were born into wealth. The skill that they must learn is how not to lose the money. This skill is difficult to sustain over more than a generation or two — grandparent earns it, parent might keep it, child usually ends up destitute both in terms of financial capital and social capital. If the “child” in this scenario is lucky, they have some social capital that will save them, and their branch of the family tree is at an inflection point. Seeing a family self-destruct like this is tough to watch and surprisingly common within that class of people.

munk-a 7y ago
That skill is so trivial to learn compared with the skill of surviving and building up income from nothing. Rich people literally just need to not be complete idiots - if you've got 300 million in the bank put it in some low interest stable investment and you'd be able to live off the investment earnings alone. There, I just explained all the life skills you need as a rich person - there is no equivalence between the road the rich and the poor need to walk to survive.
- csa 7y ago
  I am guessing that you do not know many people who were born into wealth. There are existential questions that gnaw at some of these people that hinder them from taking the seemingly simple path that you have presented. I would also argue that it is not as easy as you would think to park millions in some "low interest stable investment" that also does not have substantial (for generational wealth) counter-party risk. > there is no equivalence between the road the rich and the poor need to walk to survive I agree with this, but I think you are being overly dismissive of the skills that someone born into a wealthy family needs to keep that wealth. It requires a healthy amount of self-awareness among other things.
  - munk-a 7y ago
    Being a human being isn't easy, many people rich and poor struggle with deep philosophical questions, some people get devoured by questions of relative wealth even when they have very little just because they're among so many people poorer off than them. That doesn't change the fact that being rich is easy mode for life. Yes, it isn't just a stroll in the continuous orgy park of happiness and funtimes, but there are a lot of difficulties in life that arise out of not having enough money, rich people essentially get a pass on all of these problems. So, while I'm not saying that rich people never struggle with being a human being and all the existential doubt that can accompany that. I am saying that they never struggle to eat. I think everyone has their own struggles through life and really don't want to minimize problems that can arise in dealing with human issues like poor mental health - but seriously, everything is on easy mode for the rich, and if you don't think that's the case then you should really reach out to other communities and see what low income people have to deal with on a daily basis.

defaultprimate 7y ago

That's why 10% of people born in the top quintile fall into the bottom one in adulthood, right?