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BMW builds _cars_, not Apps. They pride themselves in craftsmanship. The Logo badge on the actual car is a three dimensional, physical thing. Instead of embrac

BMW builds _cars_, not Apps. They pride themselves in craftsmanship. The Logo badge on the actual car is a three dimensional, physical thing. Instead of embracing that, they made it flat like an App icon. It will look shit on cars and it does not communicate that BMW builds _real machines_. Everybody is going crazy about going digital and they forget what they are good at and what the customer likes them for.

huffmsa 7y ago
Looks shit on paper too. Like someone forgot to turn a layer back on before merging in illustrator. It needs that black ring. Would be fine if they brought it back
TeeWEE 7y ago
Cars are becoming more like apps in the future. It makes sense to me. I like the new logo.
atoav 7y ago
Additionally it isn't well composed. I learned graphics design from a guy who actually learned it by using his hands to pit down the letters. He had us move one black square around on a white page for 3 hours and explain why we put it where we did. Then we were allowed two squares of arbitrary size, later colors etc. If you are learning it from that basic level you cannot unsee badly unbalanced design. You cannot just remove a black background with a white one and keep everything unchanged (which is why dark themes sometimes suck as they don't get the extra love they need. This thing looks like it has been made by the CEOs daugther in Powerpoint.
- BigBubbleButt 7y ago
  > This thing looks like it has been made by the CEOs daugther in Powerpoint. I love this. I know only a bit about graphic design, but this new logo just looks...cheap. My first thought was a high school student made it with whatever free software he could find while he was bored during class, and gave up after 30 minutes because class was over. I'm not a big fan of the new flat VW logo either, although it's much better than this. https://www.motor1.com/news/369756/volkswagen-new-logo-unveiled/ https://www.motor1.com/news/369756/volkswagen-new-logo-unvei...
- libria 7y ago
  > This thing looks like it has been made by the CEOs daugther in Powerpoint. Off topic and nit-picky: Let's say "CEOs kid" to keep it gender neutral since it's a negative example. I know it was a random choice, but managing other's perceptions is part of sensitivity.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - oilrefinery 7y ago
    Why don't you fuck off and take your PC bullshit elsewhere?
- 0xffff2 7y ago
  Okay, help someone who never learned anything about graphic design from anyone. why isn't it well composed?
  - TheOtherHobbes 7y ago
    Compare the lettering on the two versions. The use of 3D-ish black and fake embossing on the original makes the letters pop. The lack of both on the new version makes the letters look like they've been crammed into a tiny space at the top of a big empty ring. This might have worked with new lettering with different proportions. But it's literally just a flat copy of the original letter shapes, without any of the original context. The 3D effect on the original print/blueprint/engineering marker/quadrant feels dynamic. The impression changes as you move your eye over it. It conveys movement and substance. It works with the black to suggest a car tire, but also a sophisticated (black...) crafted object. The new version looks like a printer reference mark. It's just... there. It doesn't do anything. The grey is meaningless and neutral. Again, it's just there. It fills a space, and that's all. The transparent version doesn't even do that. There's literally nothing there. Removing the 3D creates a uniform space inside the ring, which is why the letters now look as if they're squashed up at the top for no reason. There's poor alignment, and no metaphorical or literal highlight. Overall it suggests that management don't care about engineering or about appearances.
    - huebomont 7y ago
      Hate to break it to you, but all these "problems" with the logo were exactly the same in the old logo. You got distracted by the ham-fisted layer styles and fooled into thinking that made it good. The fact that you said "makes the letters pop" would send shivers down any designer's spine.
      - atoav 7y ago
        Having the text as negative space on dark is still perceptually different to having it on a transparent background (which is perceived as negative space). This is enough to make it feel unbalanced. See here: https://i.imgur.com/uW4TGX2.png https://i.imgur.com/uW4TGX2.png
- neuralRiot 7y ago
  Probably one of those cases where the designer creates something great and then when the customer views it they start “I like it but we want something more modern like those buttons on your phone, how do you call them? Apps right? What if we remove this and this and make these a bit larger”
Eric_WVGG 7y ago
Fake shadows and fake light is not good craftsmanship. It makes sense for a logo on a flat piece of paper to look flat and look beveled and shadowed on a badge. This evolution of the logo is bad, but not because it's flat.
- leeoniya 7y ago
  yeah, they could have easily made the existing design flat[ter] but left the rest intact. the new look looks very cheap, but i bet they paid $200k for the redesign.
  - gnicholas 7y ago
    Only $200k? I'd guess at least double that. If an iconic logo is being revamped for the first time in decades, getting it right would be worth at least a million. Sadly, paying a lot doesn't guarantee a good result...
    - pfranz 7y ago
      From reading about these redesigns in the past it sounds like most of that money goes to surveying and considering all of the places a logo is used; letterheads, physically on the cars, web graphics, sides of buildings, making sure it doesn't conflict in other markets, etc. Sure, Nike paid $35 to the designer of their logo, but that didn't include any of those things above or pay for all of the rejected designs. Like you're saying, the client very well might be requesting and choose a design that looks like it was made by an amateur.
  - thrav 7y ago
    Remember the London Olympics logo? Something like $700k.
    - mm89 7y ago
      I had to look that up, that is awesome!
  - 7y ago
remarkEon 7y ago
>Everybody is going crazy about going digital... This Logo design change is so out of left field too, since the craze about "going digital" feels almost a decade old at this point.
- huebomont 7y ago
  Flat, simple logo design has nothing to do with "going digital" - all the gradients and chrome shit layered on top of the existing logo are far more "digital" than anything that came before or after.
globular-toast 7y ago
> BMW builds _cars_, not Apps. They pride themselves in craftsmanship Do they? You're commenting on a thread about their logo change which suggests they don't. BMW has for very long time been primarily a brand. Take away the brand and they simply wouldn't compete in the market. They build real machines, but not very good ones. Look at Honda if you want an example of a company that is about the machines.
- brozaman 7y ago
  Very debatable. Depends on the model. That may be true for the X models, but if you want that is real wheel drive, practical and fun around corners, you don't have many options. It's worth saying that due to taxing in USA they are a worse deal than in Europe.
  - globular-toast 7y ago
    How many BMW drivers care about rear wheel drive? That is a very small niche. People who really want those features would go for one of the more practical sports cars.
    - brozaman 7y ago
      This probably varies a lot per region, here in Europe BMWs are a pretty affordable when compared to other real wheel drive cars. As I said in another comment imported American cars aren't a good deal in Europe. Japanese are a good deal too, but there aren't really many options that are sporty AND practical.
  - ChuckNorris89 7y ago
    On the other hand most other goods are much cheaper in the US than in Europe and also US consumers also have more disposable income than Europeans making the price difference of a BMW negligible. And anyway, complaining that some luxury cars are a bit more expensive somewhere is a first world problem most people aren't lucky enough to have.
dwnvoted2hell 7y ago
It's an idiotic story. People have been stealing the emblems of expensive cars like BMW for years. Now they make one that integrates with the car body itself, and this guy has a fit? The stupidity is astounding.
luismmolina 7y ago
Current and potential customers of BMW know what they build. Don't know if a 3D logo works as a reminder of what BMW does. I will hate a 3D logo in a company like SpaceX
PinguTS 7y ago
That's the thing. BMW is recognized as building cars, or as you say _real machines_. Instead BMW tries to transform its business to provide mobility. Its a service provider and the service is mobility. It is not the cars. The cars are the vehicle to provide mobility, one form of mobility. BMW has several brands to communicate this mobility, which are ShareNOW, FreeNOW, and ReachNOW. ShareNow is what used to be DriveNow, which is the free floating carsharing. FreeNOW is the Uber-like Taxi-App. ReachNow is the Google/Apple Maps which includes public transport, Carsharing, Taxi, eScooter Rental, Bike Rental so that you can reach your desired destination the most efficient way.
- thrav 7y ago
  This is every car manufacturer. They’re either making these investments, or resigned to their own demise.
mastre_ 7y ago
> They pride themselves in craftsmanship. Used to. These days, not so much. And they're misfiring quite a bit. For example, the new X3 xDrive30e gets a measly 18 miles of electric range (EPA; real-world likely less). All of that added complexity and weight for very little benefit (in 2020 -- 10 years ago it would have been alright). No 3er manuals in the US anymore. Have you seen the rear of the new 3er which looks like Lexus IS? Have you seen what the 5er looks like, heck even in M5 guise? And so on, and so on. Sry, I used to be a BMW guy and that touched (touches?) a nerve. They had the right formula when the i3 originally came out, and then someone at the top decided to effectively kill the program and most of their top EV engineers left. They would have been way ahead of where they are today, and of most of their competition, had they not intentionally shot themselves in the foot. With that logo, it's a done deal, I'll never buy their product again. BMW was something you could identify with.
- amdavidson 7y ago
  You are conflating design decisions with craftsmanship. I would argue that they still pride themselves in the execution of the designs, even if you (and I) disagree with some of the design direction.
  - cheschire 7y ago
    Anecdotally I've known 5 BMW owners, one was an older car (early 2000's), the rest made after 2010. The older one wrecked unfortunately, and all but one of the rest had mechanical failures. Statistically they may not be any better or worse than any other manufacturer, but I still can't convince myself that their craftsmanship is any better. The koreans pride themselves in their craftsmanship too, and their cars are a third of the price.
    - yibg 7y ago
      Anecdotal too but the only car that has left me stranded ever was a bmw. I love the older bmws for the driving experience but they require so much more maintenance than say a Lexus. The newer bmws meanwhile seem to be geared much more to the luxury market than driving enthusiasts (eg very few manual choices).
mm89 7y ago
Commenters are saying BMW has stated clearly they will not use the new logo on their products (cars). Everybody here is tripping for no reason.
- Shebanator 7y ago
  They showed the flat logo as a badge on their new concept car, right when they announced it. Maybe they are backtracking now, but it seems pretty clear their original intent was to put it on the cars.
  - abiogenesis 7y ago
    They said it during the launch of the new logo: https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/global/article/detail/T0306305EN/introducing-bmw%E2%80%99s-new-brand-design-for-online-and-offline-communication https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/global/article/detail/T030630...
neya 7y ago
> They pride themselves in craftsmanship. Designing a good logo is also craftsmanship.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
paddz420 7y ago
Here in New Zealand all the new Ford & Mazda trucks have the logo's painted black now so you can barely see it. Especially cause everyone buys matt black trucks.
- DJHenk 7y ago
  Not a bad thing. The trend to put a brand logo on literally everything started probably with cars and it is beginning to irritate me more and more. Why would I want to tell world what the brand, type, etc of my car is? Surely that is something that only interests me, the person driving it? I understand that there are people who want to impress others with their stuff, but if slapping a logo on it is what makes the car impressive... then the car is not impressive at all.
chrisdhoover 7y ago
Through the ‘90’s BMWs were well thought out and made. Some time in the ‘00’s that changed.
huebomont 7y ago
This article is just a guy whining about how he personally doesn't like a logo. This logo is just fine, and it's certainly better than the old one that tried to look like it was made of physical material. Obviously the logos that are applied to the cars will look metallic because, well, they will be made of metal. This is a better logo in general, especially for print and online purposes. No excessive fake gradients and material renders, simpler lines and colors that will reduce well, and it goes back to the original state of their logo before they piled a bunch of fake chrome on it in the last couple decades.
holoduke 7y ago
Even in apps you could argue if flat design is the best way to go. Since Google maps changed their icon I have a hard time finding it instantly between the dozen other flat app logos on my screen.
- taxidump 7y ago
  I despise the new Maps icon.

huffmsa 7y ago

Looks shit on paper too. Like someone forgot to turn a layer back on before merging in illustrator. It needs that black ring. Would be fine if they brought it back

TeeWEE 7y ago

Cars are becoming more like apps in the future. It makes sense to me. I like the new logo.

atoav 7y ago

Additionally it isn't well composed. I learned graphics design from a guy who actually learned it by using his hands to pit down the letters. He had us move one black square around on a white page for 3 hours and explain why we put it where we did. Then we were allowed two squares of arbitrary size, later colors etc. If you are learning it from that basic level you cannot unsee badly unbalanced design. You cannot just remove a black background with a white one and keep everything unchanged (which is why dark themes sometimes suck as they don't get the extra love they need. This thing looks like it has been made by the CEOs daugther in Powerpoint.

BigBubbleButt 7y ago
> This thing looks like it has been made by the CEOs daugther in Powerpoint. I love this. I know only a bit about graphic design, but this new logo just looks...cheap. My first thought was a high school student made it with whatever free software he could find while he was bored during class, and gave up after 30 minutes because class was over. I'm not a big fan of the new flat VW logo either, although it's much better than this. https://www.motor1.com/news/369756/volkswagen-new-logo-unveiled/ https://www.motor1.com/news/369756/volkswagen-new-logo-unvei...
libria 7y ago
> This thing looks like it has been made by the CEOs daugther in Powerpoint. Off topic and nit-picky: Let's say "CEOs kid" to keep it gender neutral since it's a negative example. I know it was a random choice, but managing other's perceptions is part of sensitivity.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- oilrefinery 7y ago
  Why don't you fuck off and take your PC bullshit elsewhere?
0xffff2 7y ago
Okay, help someone who never learned anything about graphic design from anyone. why isn't it well composed?
- TheOtherHobbes 7y ago
  Compare the lettering on the two versions. The use of 3D-ish black and fake embossing on the original makes the letters pop. The lack of both on the new version makes the letters look like they've been crammed into a tiny space at the top of a big empty ring. This might have worked with new lettering with different proportions. But it's literally just a flat copy of the original letter shapes, without any of the original context. The 3D effect on the original print/blueprint/engineering marker/quadrant feels dynamic. The impression changes as you move your eye over it. It conveys movement and substance. It works with the black to suggest a car tire, but also a sophisticated (black...) crafted object. The new version looks like a printer reference mark. It's just... there. It doesn't do anything. The grey is meaningless and neutral. Again, it's just there. It fills a space, and that's all. The transparent version doesn't even do that. There's literally nothing there. Removing the 3D creates a uniform space inside the ring, which is why the letters now look as if they're squashed up at the top for no reason. There's poor alignment, and no metaphorical or literal highlight. Overall it suggests that management don't care about engineering or about appearances.
  - huebomont 7y ago
    Hate to break it to you, but all these "problems" with the logo were exactly the same in the old logo. You got distracted by the ham-fisted layer styles and fooled into thinking that made it good. The fact that you said "makes the letters pop" would send shivers down any designer's spine.
    - atoav 7y ago
      Having the text as negative space on dark is still perceptually different to having it on a transparent background (which is perceived as negative space). This is enough to make it feel unbalanced. See here: https://i.imgur.com/uW4TGX2.png https://i.imgur.com/uW4TGX2.png
neuralRiot 7y ago
Probably one of those cases where the designer creates something great and then when the customer views it they start “I like it but we want something more modern like those buttons on your phone, how do you call them? Apps right? What if we remove this and this and make these a bit larger”

Eric_WVGG 7y ago

Fake shadows and fake light is not good craftsmanship. It makes sense for a logo on a flat piece of paper to look flat and look beveled and shadowed on a badge. This evolution of the logo is bad, but not because it's flat.

leeoniya 7y ago
yeah, they could have easily made the existing design flat[ter] but left the rest intact. the new look looks very cheap, but i bet they paid $200k for the redesign.
- gnicholas 7y ago
  Only $200k? I'd guess at least double that. If an iconic logo is being revamped for the first time in decades, getting it right would be worth at least a million. Sadly, paying a lot doesn't guarantee a good result...
  - pfranz 7y ago
    From reading about these redesigns in the past it sounds like most of that money goes to surveying and considering all of the places a logo is used; letterheads, physically on the cars, web graphics, sides of buildings, making sure it doesn't conflict in other markets, etc. Sure, Nike paid $35 to the designer of their logo, but that didn't include any of those things above or pay for all of the rejected designs. Like you're saying, the client very well might be requesting and choose a design that looks like it was made by an amateur.
- thrav 7y ago
  Remember the London Olympics logo? Something like $700k.
  - mm89 7y ago
    I had to look that up, that is awesome!
- 7y ago

remarkEon 7y ago

>Everybody is going crazy about going digital... This Logo design change is so out of left field too, since the craze about "going digital" feels almost a decade old at this point.

huebomont 7y ago
Flat, simple logo design has nothing to do with "going digital" - all the gradients and chrome shit layered on top of the existing logo are far more "digital" than anything that came before or after.

globular-toast 7y ago

> BMW builds _cars_, not Apps. They pride themselves in craftsmanship Do they? You're commenting on a thread about their logo change which suggests they don't. BMW has for very long time been primarily a brand. Take away the brand and they simply wouldn't compete in the market. They build real machines, but not very good ones. Look at Honda if you want an example of a company that is about the machines.

brozaman 7y ago
Very debatable. Depends on the model. That may be true for the X models, but if you want that is real wheel drive, practical and fun around corners, you don't have many options. It's worth saying that due to taxing in USA they are a worse deal than in Europe.
- globular-toast 7y ago
  How many BMW drivers care about rear wheel drive? That is a very small niche. People who really want those features would go for one of the more practical sports cars.
  - brozaman 7y ago
    This probably varies a lot per region, here in Europe BMWs are a pretty affordable when compared to other real wheel drive cars. As I said in another comment imported American cars aren't a good deal in Europe. Japanese are a good deal too, but there aren't really many options that are sporty AND practical.
- ChuckNorris89 7y ago
  On the other hand most other goods are much cheaper in the US than in Europe and also US consumers also have more disposable income than Europeans making the price difference of a BMW negligible. And anyway, complaining that some luxury cars are a bit more expensive somewhere is a first world problem most people aren't lucky enough to have.

dwnvoted2hell 7y ago

It's an idiotic story. People have been stealing the emblems of expensive cars like BMW for years. Now they make one that integrates with the car body itself, and this guy has a fit? The stupidity is astounding.

luismmolina 7y ago

Current and potential customers of BMW know what they build. Don't know if a 3D logo works as a reminder of what BMW does. I will hate a 3D logo in a company like SpaceX

PinguTS 7y ago

That's the thing. BMW is recognized as building cars, or as you say _real machines_. Instead BMW tries to transform its business to provide mobility. Its a service provider and the service is mobility. It is not the cars. The cars are the vehicle to provide mobility, one form of mobility. BMW has several brands to communicate this mobility, which are ShareNOW, FreeNOW, and ReachNOW. ShareNow is what used to be DriveNow, which is the free floating carsharing. FreeNOW is the Uber-like Taxi-App. ReachNow is the Google/Apple Maps which includes public transport, Carsharing, Taxi, eScooter Rental, Bike Rental so that you can reach your desired destination the most efficient way.

thrav 7y ago
This is every car manufacturer. They’re either making these investments, or resigned to their own demise.

mastre_ 7y ago

> They pride themselves in craftsmanship. Used to. These days, not so much. And they're misfiring quite a bit. For example, the new X3 xDrive30e gets a measly 18 miles of electric range (EPA; real-world likely less). All of that added complexity and weight for very little benefit (in 2020 -- 10 years ago it would have been alright). No 3er manuals in the US anymore. Have you seen the rear of the new 3er which looks like Lexus IS? Have you seen what the 5er looks like, heck even in M5 guise? And so on, and so on. Sry, I used to be a BMW guy and that touched (touches?) a nerve. They had the right formula when the i3 originally came out, and then someone at the top decided to effectively kill the program and most of their top EV engineers left. They would have been way ahead of where they are today, and of most of their competition, had they not intentionally shot themselves in the foot. With that logo, it's a done deal, I'll never buy their product again. BMW was something you could identify with.

amdavidson 7y ago
You are conflating design decisions with craftsmanship. I would argue that they still pride themselves in the execution of the designs, even if you (and I) disagree with some of the design direction.
- cheschire 7y ago
  Anecdotally I've known 5 BMW owners, one was an older car (early 2000's), the rest made after 2010. The older one wrecked unfortunately, and all but one of the rest had mechanical failures. Statistically they may not be any better or worse than any other manufacturer, but I still can't convince myself that their craftsmanship is any better. The koreans pride themselves in their craftsmanship too, and their cars are a third of the price.
  - yibg 7y ago
    Anecdotal too but the only car that has left me stranded ever was a bmw. I love the older bmws for the driving experience but they require so much more maintenance than say a Lexus. The newer bmws meanwhile seem to be geared much more to the luxury market than driving enthusiasts (eg very few manual choices).

mm89 7y ago

Commenters are saying BMW has stated clearly they will not use the new logo on their products (cars). Everybody here is tripping for no reason.

Shebanator 7y ago
They showed the flat logo as a badge on their new concept car, right when they announced it. Maybe they are backtracking now, but it seems pretty clear their original intent was to put it on the cars.
- abiogenesis 7y ago
  They said it during the launch of the new logo: https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/global/article/detail/T0306305EN/introducing-bmw%E2%80%99s-new-brand-design-for-online-and-offline-communication https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/global/article/detail/T030630...

neya 7y ago

> They pride themselves in craftsmanship. Designing a good logo is also craftsmanship.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]

paddz420 7y ago

Here in New Zealand all the new Ford & Mazda trucks have the logo's painted black now so you can barely see it. Especially cause everyone buys matt black trucks.

DJHenk 7y ago
Not a bad thing. The trend to put a brand logo on literally everything started probably with cars and it is beginning to irritate me more and more. Why would I want to tell world what the brand, type, etc of my car is? Surely that is something that only interests me, the person driving it? I understand that there are people who want to impress others with their stuff, but if slapping a logo on it is what makes the car impressive... then the car is not impressive at all.

chrisdhoover 7y ago

Through the ‘90’s BMWs were well thought out and made. Some time in the ‘00’s that changed.

huebomont 7y ago

This article is just a guy whining about how he personally doesn't like a logo. This logo is just fine, and it's certainly better than the old one that tried to look like it was made of physical material. Obviously the logos that are applied to the cars will look metallic because, well, they will be made of metal. This is a better logo in general, especially for print and online purposes. No excessive fake gradients and material renders, simpler lines and colors that will reduce well, and it goes back to the original state of their logo before they piled a bunch of fake chrome on it in the last couple decades.

holoduke 7y ago

Even in apps you could argue if flat design is the best way to go. Since Google maps changed their icon I have a hard time finding it instantly between the dozen other flat app logos on my screen.

taxidump 7y ago
I despise the new Maps icon.