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>So yes it seems reasonable to me that these are groundbreaking challenges. Isn't weld strength something engineers would know/understand in advance, though?

>So yes it seems reasonable to me that these are groundbreaking challenges. Isn't weld strength something engineers would know/understand in advance, though? How would it come as a surprise that the welds would fail under pressure? It seems strange to me that Musk could be spending so much time working on Starship, and somehow a "badly designed, badly built, and badly checked" rocket makes it to the platform and explodes.

101404 7y ago
They are currently not primarily working on the rocket, but in the production process.
zchrykng 7y ago
Welding by hand is both an art and a science. There is going to be variability in the quality of the weld, which will introduce variability into the strength. Machines can be far more precise and consistent compared to humans. They probably designed their tolerances assuming perfect welds and then didn't have them.
- aguyfromnb 7y ago
  >They probably designed their tolerances assuming perfect welds and then didn't have them. This sounds like terrible engineering practice.
  - irrational 7y ago
    Necessity is the mother of invention?
  - varjag 7y ago
    It's perfectly normal engineering practice. Camshaft, gearbox profiles, and bearing surfaces in your car have very tight tolerances. A one slightly unbalanced turbine blade in your airliner engine would assure catastrophic failure. etc etc
    - Bendingo 7y ago
      Yes, but these items (camshaft, gearbox etc) are not made "by hand".
      - varjag 7y ago
        Camshafts were turned then ground manually on line lathes and surface grinders for many decades before advent of CNC, with about the same degree of dimensional precision as today. It is more an issue of quality control and inspection routines.
    - aguyfromnb 7y ago
      Do you not see a difference between the intricate components of an engine and the welds on a tank as far as complexity? Is it even possible to discuss anything Elon Musk anymore without 100% praise of his engineering prowess? Every single comment gets down-voted into oblivion, with very few replies. And, due to the "cool off", this prevents any balanced discourse.
grey-area 7y ago
There are additional constraints not found in most welding projects. They can’t just make the material and weld thicker/heavier as that would impact the rocket performance. So it has to be as thin and fragile as possible but no thinner. That makes it very hard to get right, and the welds have to be done to very fine tolerances on thin material, you could say it is rocket science.
- aguyfromnb 7y ago
  >They can’t just make the material and weld thicker/heavier as that would impact the rocket performance. I understand. But the stresses that materials and welds can withstand are not unknown variables. We're talking about a pressurized tank here. You aren't going to build a rocket (designed to carry people) that has tolerances so tight that it's touch and go whether it explodes as soon as it's pressurized.

101404 7y ago

They are currently not primarily working on the rocket, but in the production process.

zchrykng 7y ago

Welding by hand is both an art and a science. There is going to be variability in the quality of the weld, which will introduce variability into the strength. Machines can be far more precise and consistent compared to humans. They probably designed their tolerances assuming perfect welds and then didn't have them.

aguyfromnb 7y ago
>They probably designed their tolerances assuming perfect welds and then didn't have them. This sounds like terrible engineering practice.
- irrational 7y ago
  Necessity is the mother of invention?
- varjag 7y ago
  It's perfectly normal engineering practice. Camshaft, gearbox profiles, and bearing surfaces in your car have very tight tolerances. A one slightly unbalanced turbine blade in your airliner engine would assure catastrophic failure. etc etc
  - Bendingo 7y ago
    Yes, but these items (camshaft, gearbox etc) are not made "by hand".
    - varjag 7y ago
      Camshafts were turned then ground manually on line lathes and surface grinders for many decades before advent of CNC, with about the same degree of dimensional precision as today. It is more an issue of quality control and inspection routines.
  - aguyfromnb 7y ago
    Do you not see a difference between the intricate components of an engine and the welds on a tank as far as complexity? Is it even possible to discuss anything Elon Musk anymore without 100% praise of his engineering prowess? Every single comment gets down-voted into oblivion, with very few replies. And, due to the "cool off", this prevents any balanced discourse.

grey-area 7y ago

There are additional constraints not found in most welding projects. They can’t just make the material and weld thicker/heavier as that would impact the rocket performance. So it has to be as thin and fragile as possible but no thinner. That makes it very hard to get right, and the welds have to be done to very fine tolerances on thin material, you could say it is rocket science.

aguyfromnb 7y ago
>They can’t just make the material and weld thicker/heavier as that would impact the rocket performance. I understand. But the stresses that materials and welds can withstand are not unknown variables. We're talking about a pressurized tank here. You aren't going to build a rocket (designed to carry people) that has tolerances so tight that it's touch and go whether it explodes as soon as it's pressurized.