5 ms·

Maybe good for hiding activity when you're already below the radar. If you're a person of interest for a large enough state then they can and will use all manne

Maybe good for hiding activity when you're already below the radar. If you're a person of interest for a large enough state then they can and will use all manner of dirty tactics to nail you and simply encrypting is not enough. You will have to flee like Snowden did. And once they bring in legislation that says a govt agent can ask for your decryption keys under reasonable doubt then everyone is in soup since encrypted data is easy enough to detect as such. One may have to shift to steganography of increasing sophistication. Basically this fight has to be clinched politically. While technology can help it can't ensure absolute privacy/security against an all-powerful state. The key question is if a state should be all-powerful at all in the first place...

aforensics 7y ago
Indeed. Software is a supplement to the physical world. But we do what we can, and at least in the realm of software, we can have freedom. It's possible Tor and Tails is dangerous software to use in certain states. But if they can safely use it, it's here for them.
tuxxy 7y ago
> everyone is in soup since encrypted data is easy enough to detect... This is only half-true. Any secure encryption is going to result in ciphertext that is indistinguishable from random data. In cases where the ciphertext is designated by a header or file format, then it's trivial to know that something is encrypted. Then there are cases where we can try to forensically determine that there's encrypted data via the existence of an encryption tool (e.g. VeraCrypt). If you wipe a disk with random data, for example, then it would be relatively difficult to determine whether or not the disk is encrypted (implying that there are no headers on it). In fact, one method of wiping disks is to generate a random encryption key and encrypt a stream from /dev/zero to fill the disk (https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Dm-crypt/Drive_preparation#dm-crypt_specific_methods https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Dm-crypt/Drive_preparat...). This tool is making use of a VeraCrypt hidden volume which is a rather really interesting application of plausible deniability in cryptography. Essentially, this let's you have two volumes where both are encrypted, but each has a different key. In this setup, you'd put some files on one of the volumes to make it appear that it's your "used" volume. On the other "hidden" volume, you'd place the real files you want to keep safe. In a case where the government is demanding that you release your encryption keys, you would give up the keys to the "fake" volume. Unless you divulge the keys to the "real" volume, the attackers wouldn't necessarily know that it exists. Unless there's evidence of you using one (maybe chat logs or google searches asking for help on using it, for example), there's no reason for anyone to suspect you use it. The VeraCrypt documentation explains the technical details (https://www.veracrypt.fr/en/Hidden%20Volume.html https://www.veracrypt.fr/en/Hidden%20Volume.html) well enough.
- ansible 7y ago
  > This is only half-true. Any secure encryption is going to result in ciphertext that is indistinguishable from random data. A new SSD with very little data in the filesystem isn't going to have many, many sectors filled with random bytes. They're going to be blank instead. A used drive will have free sectors (not used by the filesystem) containing unencrypted contents of old files that have since been deleted or something. This is also not random data. Chunks of movies, pictures, applications and music will be identifiable, easily.
  - Piskvorrr 7y ago
    A previously-used disk, wiped to NIST standards, will be filled with random data - that's exactly the point of the wipe.
    - ansible 7y ago
      > A previously-used disk, wiped to NIST standards, will be filled with random data - that's exactly the point of the wipe. Yes, and that is suspicious. Random data is suspicious.
      - Piskvorrr 7y ago
        Suspicious, true. But in such case, you could be in trouble for refusing to provide the password to a suspected hidden drive which doesn't exist. How does that even make sense? (Rhetorical question)
        ansible 7y ago
        From your point of view, it doesn't of course. You know that you don't have an encrypted partition. But from the authorities' point of view, they will beat you until they're convinced you don't have anything of interest you can give up. That could last quite a while...
        7y ago
rsync 7y ago
"... since encrypted data is easy enough to detect as such ..." I am not sure what you mean here - properly encrypted data is indistinguishable from random data ...

aforensics 7y ago

Indeed. Software is a supplement to the physical world. But we do what we can, and at least in the realm of software, we can have freedom. It's possible Tor and Tails is dangerous software to use in certain states. But if they can safely use it, it's here for them.

tuxxy 7y ago

> everyone is in soup since encrypted data is easy enough to detect... This is only half-true. Any secure encryption is going to result in ciphertext that is indistinguishable from random data. In cases where the ciphertext is designated by a header or file format, then it's trivial to know that something is encrypted. Then there are cases where we can try to forensically determine that there's encrypted data via the existence of an encryption tool (e.g. VeraCrypt). If you wipe a disk with random data, for example, then it would be relatively difficult to determine whether or not the disk is encrypted (implying that there are no headers on it). In fact, one method of wiping disks is to generate a random encryption key and encrypt a stream from /dev/zero to fill the disk (https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Dm-crypt/Drive_preparation#dm-crypt_specific_methods https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Dm-crypt/Drive_preparat...). This tool is making use of a VeraCrypt hidden volume which is a rather really interesting application of plausible deniability in cryptography. Essentially, this let's you have two volumes where both are encrypted, but each has a different key. In this setup, you'd put some files on one of the volumes to make it appear that it's your "used" volume. On the other "hidden" volume, you'd place the real files you want to keep safe. In a case where the government is demanding that you release your encryption keys, you would give up the keys to the "fake" volume. Unless you divulge the keys to the "real" volume, the attackers wouldn't necessarily know that it exists. Unless there's evidence of you using one (maybe chat logs or google searches asking for help on using it, for example), there's no reason for anyone to suspect you use it. The VeraCrypt documentation explains the technical details (https://www.veracrypt.fr/en/Hidden%20Volume.html https://www.veracrypt.fr/en/Hidden%20Volume.html) well enough.

ansible 7y ago
> This is only half-true. Any secure encryption is going to result in ciphertext that is indistinguishable from random data. A new SSD with very little data in the filesystem isn't going to have many, many sectors filled with random bytes. They're going to be blank instead. A used drive will have free sectors (not used by the filesystem) containing unencrypted contents of old files that have since been deleted or something. This is also not random data. Chunks of movies, pictures, applications and music will be identifiable, easily.
- Piskvorrr 7y ago
  A previously-used disk, wiped to NIST standards, will be filled with random data - that's exactly the point of the wipe.
  - ansible 7y ago
    > A previously-used disk, wiped to NIST standards, will be filled with random data - that's exactly the point of the wipe. Yes, and that is suspicious. Random data is suspicious.
    - Piskvorrr 7y ago
      Suspicious, true. But in such case, you could be in trouble for refusing to provide the password to a suspected hidden drive which doesn't exist. How does that even make sense? (Rhetorical question)
      - ansible 7y ago
        From your point of view, it doesn't of course. You know that you don't have an encrypted partition. But from the authorities' point of view, they will beat you until they're convinced you don't have anything of interest you can give up. That could last quite a while...
        7y ago

rsync 7y ago

"... since encrypted data is easy enough to detect as such ..." I am not sure what you mean here - properly encrypted data is indistinguishable from random data ...