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And that's why everyone still uses SVN and git is this obscure minor player that's relatively unheard of.

flohofwoe 7y ago
Whether it's specifically SVN doesn't matter really, the point is that no other version control system in history required so much mental effort to be "learned" like git. And the worst thing is that new people who don't know anything else than git think that this is normal. What's happening under the hood is mostly fine (mostly, because git completely breaks down with large binary files, and solutions like git lfs don't help much with this problem). What's really bad is the git "frontend", that there's no obvious standard workflow, instead there's a thousand ways to do the same thing. That's great if you have a lot of time for tinkering and meddling with the tools layer, but not when you simply need to get shit done. The version control system should essentially 'disappear' and never require attention.
- james_s_tayler 7y ago
  I started on SVN. Had a stint using TFS. Eventually wound up in git. I vastly prefer git. We had simpler, easier to operate version control tools. Git traded off some of that simplicity for other benefits the community at large seems to value enough to have migrated away from the simpler tools. I'm skeptical the "git is too complicated for newbies" cry is truly a turning point in tech cycle where we see the folly of our ways and begin to decry the current flavor of the month at the new anti-pattern after enough real-world experience has been accumulated to show us the error of our ways. I think it's just "I don't like the way this makes me feel".
taneq 7y ago
That's why everyone should still use SVN (or even something distributed but friendlier, like hg or bzr) and git should be a minor-but-important player that's used where needed (like for managing the Linux kernel, which is what it's actually for). But of course we've cargo-culted it everywhere, and anyone who objects runs up against the pervasive attitude that there are no bad user interfaces or difficult-to-use software, only stupid people.
- james_s_tayler 7y ago
  >That's why everyone should still use SVN Ah yes, good old normative claims. The market wants what the market wants.

Whether it's specifically SVN doesn't matter really, the point is that no other version control system in history required so much mental effort to be "learned" like git. And the worst thing is that new people who don't know anything else than git think that this is normal. What's happening under the hood is mostly fine (mostly, because git completely breaks down with large binary files, and solutions like git lfs don't help much with this problem). What's really bad is the git "frontend", that there's no obvious standard workflow, instead there's a thousand ways to do the same thing. That's great if you have a lot of time for tinkering and meddling with the tools layer, but not when you simply need to get shit done. The version control system should essentially 'disappear' and never require attention.

james_s_tayler 7y ago
I started on SVN. Had a stint using TFS. Eventually wound up in git. I vastly prefer git. We had simpler, easier to operate version control tools. Git traded off some of that simplicity for other benefits the community at large seems to value enough to have migrated away from the simpler tools. I'm skeptical the "git is too complicated for newbies" cry is truly a turning point in tech cycle where we see the folly of our ways and begin to decry the current flavor of the month at the new anti-pattern after enough real-world experience has been accumulated to show us the error of our ways. I think it's just "I don't like the way this makes me feel".

taneq 7y ago

That's why everyone should still use SVN (or even something distributed but friendlier, like hg or bzr) and git should be a minor-but-important player that's used where needed (like for managing the Linux kernel, which is what it's actually for). But of course we've cargo-culted it everywhere, and anyone who objects runs up against the pervasive attitude that there are no bad user interfaces or difficult-to-use software, only stupid people.

james_s_tayler 7y ago
>That's why everyone should still use SVN Ah yes, good old normative claims. The market wants what the market wants.