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I am not sure I understand why this is a win for Uber drivers(genuine question). Is it considered a win because now they are treated as employees, so they will

by oarla 7y ago

I am not sure I understand why this is a win for Uber drivers(genuine question). Is it considered a win because now they are treated as employees, so they will have benefits like sick pay, vacation days etc? What was the policy when they were not employees? Would they be penalized(financially) if they took a sick day? France already mandates some of these for contractors, so not a huge benefit, I think. I doubt it'll mean more earnings, since employees are generally paid lower than contractors. This being in France, universal health care already covers everyone, so don't think that drivers are going to get a better healthcare coverage. Maybe now the drivers will have to be compensated for wear and tear of their vehicle, which I can see is a win.

BitwiseFool 7y ago
I have a hunch this is actually being done to hurt Uber drivers and save the already well-regulated Cab industry in France.
- WanderPanda 7y ago
  Probably also an act of protectionism / hurting foreign companies
  - Jommi 7y ago
    Yep, you can already see it with the internet tax they are proposing. Well, European competitors like Bolt will prevail.
  - duxut_staglatz 7y ago
    Are you implying that French courts change their rulings to benefit the government policies (hurting foreign companies in this case) rather than simply basing them on the law?
- jteppinette 7y ago
  This ^ it is always helpful to see who is doing the lobbying.
nraynaud 7y ago
because now there is a minimal pay per worked hour. And a worked hour is an hour where you're on call (this is very well settled), not just the driving with a client in the back. And overtime after 35h/w.
namdnay 7y ago
> This being in France, universal health care already covers everyone, so don't think that drivers are going to get a better healthcare coverage. A common misconception. Health insurance is not mandatory but highly recommended in France. Example: a dental implant will cost between 500 and 800 euros, depending on the materials used and the local market rates. Social security will pay about 200e of that. The rest is up to your private insurance. If you don’t have any, get used to having a hole in your smile
- ldng 7y ago
  For employee, universal public healthcare is mandatory and paid to the state. Part is paid directly by your company (you don't see it on your wage slip) and part is paid by the company on your behalf (appears on your wage slip). The same goes for retirement. Also taken from your salary, a complementary private healthcare plan chosen by your employer. I just literally learnt yesterday the mandatory part on the company private complementary plan. You can not reject the company plan if it does not suit you. But you can take another complementary plan on your own. BUT only one is eligible for reimbursement. So you basically loose part of your salary if you choose a better complementary health plan as recipient of your health bills. Now, if you are a freelancer, well, you also have to pay all of that, all by yourself this time. The affiliation is different (RSI) but you still have to pay universal public healthcare. Then you are free to have a complementary private healthcare plan or not. All critical health issue are covered by universal public healthcare. Less critical stuff like dental implants or ultra-thin glasses are not. You don't get a hole if you don't have complementary health insurance, you get a cheap dental plate.
avocado4 7y ago
> I am not sure I understand why this is a win for Uber drivers(genuine question). It's not meant to be a win for Uber drivers. It's meant to be a win for taxi companies.
duxut_staglatz 7y ago
A significant part of health care expenses are covered by _mutuelles_, (now mandatory) employer-provided, non-profit health insurance 'companies'. According to wikipedia [0], about 75% of health spending goes through the government[1], 15% through mutuelles and 10% paid directly by households. So being reclassified as an employee means: - your employer will pay a large part of your public health contributions ; unless your gross wage is much lower as an employee than your income as an independent worker, this results in higher after-tax after-social-contributions income. - you have access to a mutuelle, and the employer must pay at least 50% of its cost by law In the end, the difference in health coverage between being an employee vs an independent worker is not life-or-death like in the US, but it's quite stark still. [0] https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutuelle_de_sant%C3%A9_en_France https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutuelle_de_sant%C3%A9_en_Fran... [1] Technically, the "social security", which include pensions, healthcare, work injuries, most family and child benefits, is not part of the government and has its own budget.

by oarla 7y ago

BitwiseFool 7y ago

I have a hunch this is actually being done to hurt Uber drivers and save the already well-regulated Cab industry in France.

WanderPanda 7y ago
Probably also an act of protectionism / hurting foreign companies
- Jommi 7y ago
  Yep, you can already see it with the internet tax they are proposing. Well, European competitors like Bolt will prevail.
- duxut_staglatz 7y ago
  Are you implying that French courts change their rulings to benefit the government policies (hurting foreign companies in this case) rather than simply basing them on the law?
jteppinette 7y ago
This ^ it is always helpful to see who is doing the lobbying.

nraynaud 7y ago

because now there is a minimal pay per worked hour. And a worked hour is an hour where you're on call (this is very well settled), not just the driving with a client in the back. And overtime after 35h/w.

namdnay 7y ago

> This being in France, universal health care already covers everyone, so don't think that drivers are going to get a better healthcare coverage. A common misconception. Health insurance is not mandatory but highly recommended in France. Example: a dental implant will cost between 500 and 800 euros, depending on the materials used and the local market rates. Social security will pay about 200e of that. The rest is up to your private insurance. If you don’t have any, get used to having a hole in your smile

ldng 7y ago
For employee, universal public healthcare is mandatory and paid to the state. Part is paid directly by your company (you don't see it on your wage slip) and part is paid by the company on your behalf (appears on your wage slip). The same goes for retirement. Also taken from your salary, a complementary private healthcare plan chosen by your employer. I just literally learnt yesterday the mandatory part on the company private complementary plan. You can not reject the company plan if it does not suit you. But you can take another complementary plan on your own. BUT only one is eligible for reimbursement. So you basically loose part of your salary if you choose a better complementary health plan as recipient of your health bills. Now, if you are a freelancer, well, you also have to pay all of that, all by yourself this time. The affiliation is different (RSI) but you still have to pay universal public healthcare. Then you are free to have a complementary private healthcare plan or not. All critical health issue are covered by universal public healthcare. Less critical stuff like dental implants or ultra-thin glasses are not. You don't get a hole if you don't have complementary health insurance, you get a cheap dental plate.

avocado4 7y ago

> I am not sure I understand why this is a win for Uber drivers(genuine question). It's not meant to be a win for Uber drivers. It's meant to be a win for taxi companies.

duxut_staglatz 7y ago

A significant part of health care expenses are covered by _mutuelles_, (now mandatory) employer-provided, non-profit health insurance 'companies'. According to wikipedia [0], about 75% of health spending goes through the government[1], 15% through mutuelles and 10% paid directly by households. So being reclassified as an employee means: - your employer will pay a large part of your public health contributions ; unless your gross wage is much lower as an employee than your income as an independent worker, this results in higher after-tax after-social-contributions income. - you have access to a mutuelle, and the employer must pay at least 50% of its cost by law In the end, the difference in health coverage between being an employee vs an independent worker is not life-or-death like in the US, but it's quite stark still. [0] https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutuelle_de_sant%C3%A9_en_France https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutuelle_de_sant%C3%A9_en_Fran... [1] Technically, the "social security", which include pensions, healthcare, work injuries, most family and child benefits, is not part of the government and has its own budget.