4 ms·

Why not? Sounds like they would also be an employee under this ruling.

rahimnathwani 7y ago
Whose employee? That of the taxi organisation which regulates them, but doesn't actually pay them? That of each of individual customer, who are the ones who pay them?
- munk-a 7y ago
  Does this reasoning mean that all waiters are independent contractors? They collect cash directly from the customer and reserve a portion of that before passing it on to their employer (the tip) - taxi drivers (who are members of a firm) due end up paying the firm dues for the service of having a pooled call center and possibly maintenance services. I think trying to determine if someone is an employee based on if they receive cash from customers is a pretty arbitrary line that seems to exclude some pretty valid definitions of independent contractors like temporary workers and sales consultants.
  - chrisseaton 7y ago
    Waiters can be employees of a restaurant. Who can taxi drivers be an employee of?
    - munk-a 7y ago
      The dispatch company - the company which, generally, has their name painted on the side of the taxi.
      - chrisseaton 7y ago
        I don’t think most taxi drivers have a connection to any ‘dispatch company’ they just pick up fares as they drive around.
        munk-a 7y ago
        I am purely speaking from my own experience and I can't speak absolutely... but every city I've ever lived in has had a few random cabbies driving around that are far outnumbered by the cab companies - whether this is yellow cab or something random like Boston's Metro Cab[1]. If you ever need to call and schedule a cab to the airport you'll be calling into a dispatch center - rather than just arranging it with a dude. My impression is that street hires are a pretty small proportion of the taxi market. 1. http://metro-cab.com/ http://metro-cab.com/
      - dnautics 7y ago
        No, you don't understand. They are customers of the dispatch company. They pay the dispatch company licensing fees and rent. Totally different, way more exploitative and way more legal arrangement.
        Frenziefrenz 7y ago
        Where, in France? Considering they are employees in the Benelux I find that implausible. Especially considering that the OP is about a French court saying that Uber was just trying to find a loophole so they wouldn't have to treat their employees like any normal taxi company.
  - wjmao88 7y ago
    And that is part of the reason many people also criticizes the tipping system in US/Canada. An arguably broken system from another industry doesn't make for a good comparison.
- rtkwe 7y ago
  There's the obvious choice of the dispatch company they work for.
  - chrisseaton 7y ago
    I don’t think all taxi drivers work with a dispatch company. Most just pick people up at the side of the road don’t they?
    - munk-a 7y ago
      I think that's a mis-categorization - I do agree that these exist (and a lot of them fall into the "airport taxi" class since that's a reliable place to get business) and a cab operating in such a manner sounds plausible to be an independent contractor. But organizations like Yellow Cab exist and is the way most folks hail a cab, even at hotels - when you ask the concierge to get a cab for you they'll almost certainly call a local company and ask for a cab to be sent over - someone actually needs to be monitoring that phone, and the logistics of each cabbie having a phone in the car is kinda crazy "Oh ernie is currently driving someone, bart might be available I'll call him" so there is a central dispatching center with a few employees that just help make sure that the cabs are well distributed to quickly respond to calls.
      - chrisseaton 7y ago
        > they'll almost certainly call a local company and ask for a cab to be sent over In my experience they just step outside and wave one down.
        rtkwe 7y ago
        Those mostly also belong to a bigger company that handles call in dispatches.
        chrisseaton 7y ago
        I don't think they've ever had radios in though, doesn't seem likely that they also take dispatches.
- Frenziefrenz 7y ago
  Are you arguing from the framework provided by a presumably not Western European legal system?
chrisseaton 7y ago
An employee of who?
himinlomax 7y ago
Taxis are paid directly by their customers, so one of the criterions does not apply. (Note that some taxis are employees of taxi companies, but they need not be, as far as the regulation at hand is concerned.)

Whose employee? That of the taxi organisation which regulates them, but doesn't actually pay them? That of each of individual customer, who are the ones who pay them?

munk-a 7y ago
Does this reasoning mean that all waiters are independent contractors? They collect cash directly from the customer and reserve a portion of that before passing it on to their employer (the tip) - taxi drivers (who are members of a firm) due end up paying the firm dues for the service of having a pooled call center and possibly maintenance services. I think trying to determine if someone is an employee based on if they receive cash from customers is a pretty arbitrary line that seems to exclude some pretty valid definitions of independent contractors like temporary workers and sales consultants.
- chrisseaton 7y ago
  Waiters can be employees of a restaurant. Who can taxi drivers be an employee of?
  - munk-a 7y ago
    The dispatch company - the company which, generally, has their name painted on the side of the taxi.
    - chrisseaton 7y ago
      I don’t think most taxi drivers have a connection to any ‘dispatch company’ they just pick up fares as they drive around.
      - munk-a 7y ago
        I am purely speaking from my own experience and I can't speak absolutely... but every city I've ever lived in has had a few random cabbies driving around that are far outnumbered by the cab companies - whether this is yellow cab or something random like Boston's Metro Cab[1]. If you ever need to call and schedule a cab to the airport you'll be calling into a dispatch center - rather than just arranging it with a dude. My impression is that street hires are a pretty small proportion of the taxi market. 1. http://metro-cab.com/ http://metro-cab.com/
    - dnautics 7y ago
      No, you don't understand. They are customers of the dispatch company. They pay the dispatch company licensing fees and rent. Totally different, way more exploitative and way more legal arrangement.
      - Frenziefrenz 7y ago
        Where, in France? Considering they are employees in the Benelux I find that implausible. Especially considering that the OP is about a French court saying that Uber was just trying to find a loophole so they wouldn't have to treat their employees like any normal taxi company.
- wjmao88 7y ago
  And that is part of the reason many people also criticizes the tipping system in US/Canada. An arguably broken system from another industry doesn't make for a good comparison.
rtkwe 7y ago
There's the obvious choice of the dispatch company they work for.
- chrisseaton 7y ago
  I don’t think all taxi drivers work with a dispatch company. Most just pick people up at the side of the road don’t they?
  - munk-a 7y ago
    I think that's a mis-categorization - I do agree that these exist (and a lot of them fall into the "airport taxi" class since that's a reliable place to get business) and a cab operating in such a manner sounds plausible to be an independent contractor. But organizations like Yellow Cab exist and is the way most folks hail a cab, even at hotels - when you ask the concierge to get a cab for you they'll almost certainly call a local company and ask for a cab to be sent over - someone actually needs to be monitoring that phone, and the logistics of each cabbie having a phone in the car is kinda crazy "Oh ernie is currently driving someone, bart might be available I'll call him" so there is a central dispatching center with a few employees that just help make sure that the cabs are well distributed to quickly respond to calls.
    - chrisseaton 7y ago
      > they'll almost certainly call a local company and ask for a cab to be sent over In my experience they just step outside and wave one down.
      - rtkwe 7y ago
        Those mostly also belong to a bigger company that handles call in dispatches.
        chrisseaton 7y ago
        I don't think they've ever had radios in though, doesn't seem likely that they also take dispatches.
Frenziefrenz 7y ago
Are you arguing from the framework provided by a presumably not Western European legal system?

chrisseaton 7y ago

An employee of who?

himinlomax 7y ago

Taxis are paid directly by their customers, so one of the criterions does not apply. (Note that some taxis are employees of taxi companies, but they need not be, as far as the regulation at hand is concerned.)